Is it possible to balance a 8 foot flipping rod without using a ton of weight.

Glenn McMurrian

Glenn,
It will be perfectly balanced, if you make the handle long enough! Nothing wrong with having a rod with a longer handle.

Good luck

If you're simply going to make the handle longer, why not just use a shorter rod blank to begin with?

If you need that length out front, and I assume you do, then I'd forego any weight for balancing and just use it as is. Build the top half of the rod as light as possible - lightweight guides, short wraps, minimum finish.

...............

Glenn, I have an 8ft. flipper built on a rainshadow SW-967F. The rod weighs 6.5 oz. I just tried this and it took 4.3 oz.s hanging on the butt to bring it just to neutral in my hand. If you bought a true flippin blank it's most likely lighter than mine, but it's still gonna take a lot of weight.

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glenn,
> It will be perfectly balanced, if you make the
> handle long enough! Nothing wrong with having a
> rod with a longer handle.
>
> Good luck

Ridiculous!!!
A light blank and light guides and about 3oz of tungsten seems to work. Hope that helps.
Stan

What is there about a flipping stick that would needs balancing? It's a short line presentation.
I fish salmon rods with 5 to 8 oz. of weight in some heavy current, rods are the same length and general power rating. They are in my hands all day lifting the weight off the bottom and manipulating the line length to keep it following the depth contour and just off the bottom.
The original flipping stick was much longer and built out of a fiberglass saltwater blank. seemed to get the job done back than without balancing.

How long of a handle or rear grip Roger?

To balance an 8' rod without any weight added to the butt, my guess is you'd have to have at least a 14" rear grip. Perhaps even longer if it's being built with a split rear grip, and using a reel that weighs in around 7 1/2 ozs. or lighter. The lighter the reel and rear grip, the further out you'd have to push the reel seat.

A 14" rear grip on a flipping rod, at least for me and the way I perform the flipping technique, is a definite no go. I wouldn't be able to use the rod.

All flipping isn't performed with your arms extended. Sometimes your arms are tucked in close to your body. If the travel path of the butt is inside your forearm, meaning it's between your arms, then you're asking for trouble.

And flipping is a different world than the type of fishing Spencer describes. Hundreds up to more than 1,000 flips can be performed in a day. Not to mention the position the rod is held in when trying to detect a bite that most often comes on a semi slack line. A light tip is a benefit with any technique that involves detecting a bit on semi slack line.

I'm with Stan on this. I doubt you'd have to add more than 3 oz to the butt to balance it, and my guess is that much weight would make it tip light.

I'd build it with a handle length that is usable for many different hand and arm positions. I'd use light guides. but I wouldn't scrimp on their numbers. And I darn sure would add enough weight to the butt to make it at the least, neutrally balanced.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2016 10:25AM by David Baylor.

Is it possible some way to quickly add or subtract weight to restore the balance when you put a lure or weight on your line?

You can put a threaded insert in the butt of the blank, and then screw on as much weight as you need at the butt end of the rod.

[www.basstacklemaster.com]


Be safe

Balance is desireable as it lends to less fatigue over the day. Flipping for 8+ hours with an unbalanced rod multiple days in a tournament might leave you feeling like you have arthritis. With that said, before considering rear grip length, I've only been able to truly balance one by sticking 2-3oz's of weight in the butt. That's a tough proposition when you pay for a light blank.

Building bass rods, balance became something I kicked around for a while. Especially if you use standard rear lengths found on most rod recipes from blank sellers. It wasnt until I picked up a Dobyns Champ XP that it came together for me. Measure their rear lengths and you start to see why. On a 7'6" flippin stick their total rear length is 11". Depending on blank and reel for a 7'6" rod you should be between 10.5-11" including butt cap.

I have 8' swimbait rods with 13.5-13.75" of rear grip. Feel great.

Some general lengths I've found to like.
7' - 10"
7'2,7'3 - 10.25
7'6" -11"
7'9 - 13" swimbait
8' - 13.5-13.75 Swimbait

Good luck finding the sweet spot!

Phil, we're talking flipping rods here. Why on Earth anyone would even consider the weight of the lure being used when trying to balance a rod and reel combination that will be used for flipping, or any presentation for that matter, is beyond me.

With that said, I believe there are two advantages to balancing a rod and reel combination that will be use for flipping. One being, as Adam pointed out, it lessens the fatigue associated with the mechanics and repetitive motion of the presentation. That benefit is quantifiable and measurable. The unit of measure being pain. The other benefit is purely conjecture, but conjecture that is shared by more than just myself. And that is that a neutrally balanced or tip light rod and reel combination that is being used for semi slack line techniques, enhances bite detection.

Yes, adding weight to a rod and reel combination increases the overall effort required to hold the rod, But balancing such a rod lessens the effort required by certain muscle groups, those in the wrist and forearm, and shifts them to other larger slower to fatigue muscle groups, those in the biceps, triceps, and shoulder.

Adam's listed handle length preferences seem to mirror my earlier thoughts of the length handle it would require to balance an 8' rod and reel combination. For me personally, due to my physical dimensions and the way I perform a flipping presentation, I'm going to add weight to the butt of the rod, before I push the reel seat that far forward.

I completely understand the trepidation some have of adding weight to a blank they selected because it's light. I guess I just think that weight at or behind the reel isn't that big of a deal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2016 11:13PM by David Baylor.

David: I always try to integrate all the elements in my fishing outfit, lure-weight, line, rod, and reel - whether flipping, fly casting, jigging, trolling - whatever. I have never actively considered balancing my fishing outfit by adding weight to any rod, although perhaps I should. When I hear "balance" I think "equilibrium" and assume when weight is added on one side of the fulcrum then weight must be added on the other side of the fulcrum to restore balance, hence my question. Obviously there are subtleties to balancing a fishing outfit which elude me.

Phil, I can understand your literal definition of the word "balance". After all, a tip light or tip heavy rod and reel combination is not balanced. When talking about a preferred balance point for a rod and reel combination, perhaps saying a person is looking for a degree of balance, would be more accurate.

As for trying to a balance a rod and reel combination for every possible variable .... as a fly fisherman surely you understand how difficult, (I would say impossible) it would be to balance a rod and reel for every possible variable. Look at mending a fly cast, More line out past the tip, the heavier the tip will be, the more weight you'd have to add at the butt to counteract it. A shorter cast with less line out past the tip, the lighter the tip and the less weight you'd need at the butt to counteract it.

In something like fishing soft plastics for bass, the density of the plastic of one bait over another adds weight. The aerodynamics of a slim profile bait versus one with appendages. With skirted baits like spinnerbaits and jigs .... how thick is the skirt. How long is the skirt. If it's a spinnerbait what type and how many blades. If it's a jig does it have a trailer. What is that trailer made of. How long is it, how wide is it.

Way too many variables to even begin to consider. Let alone add in baits like crankbaits with their different running depths, body types and vibration patterns.

For me personally, and I know I sound like a broken record ever time this subject comes up, but a balanced rod and reel combination, or a rod and reel balanced to a certain degree is most important when a bait is being fished employing slack or semi slack line techniques, not when it's being cast. Or when performing certain techniques where a rod and reel with a certain balance point is going to make using that rod over long periods of time, less fatiguing.

If you're flipping or pitching a 1/2 oz bait with a rod and reel combination that is tip heavy before tying on your bait, it's going to be less fatiguing if you have the rod and reel combination slightly unbalanced, and tip light.

I don't know ..... I know we all have our preferences, and perhaps I feel the way I do because I've been bass fishing for so many years, and my favorite presentations are those that employ the slack and semi slack line techniques I mention so often. It really does make a difference, and I truly believe that if some people would try adding weight at the butt to achieve a certain degree of balance, they wouldn't be repulsed by the idea.

In fact .... I have a feeling many would be repulsed that they hadn't tried it before hand.

Actually, I do not pay the slightest attention to physically balancing my fly rods. I simply try to keep the rod and reel combination as light as possible. I have not spent much time pitching baits, but I have done a fair amount of nymph fishing - which I would classify as "slack line fishing." When nymph fishing I rely exclusively upon visual signals to set the hook and not at all on my sense of touch. I don't think I am capable of feeling a hit at the other end of a slack line, regardless of rod balance or tactile sensitivity.

Glenn, the answer to your question is YES ! I learned the Flippin' technique from Dee Thomas and the Pitchin' technique from Gary Klein. The right amount of weight for an 8 ft Flip stick to be perfectly balanced is ZERO ! I wrote the article for Tom K. some time ago about balancing Bass rods. Dee never explained the proper technique completely in an article because he intended to win in competition against those that tried to copy him. (He did) Basically, Flippin' is a line technique, the reel is engaged when you have enough line in your left hand to make the Flip to your intended target. Take your left hand and follow your Flip out and down. Your left hand goes from holding the line to holding the rod well above the handle. Where your left hand holds the rod it is now in perfect balance !

Pitchin' is a disengaged reel technique, for 20 to 60 feet. The left hand can hold the lure but not the rod, now the game changes. The article I wrote addresses this issue. What's the old joke "don't make me come back there " - too late. Tom sign me up, last go round for me at the rodeo.

One seminar "Balancing Bass Rods" , all techniques, all handles, all rod lengths. Another seminar " Building Bass rods as TOOLS ", form follows function, eliminate the unnecessary and the role of the spiral wrap for custom builders.