A couple of years ago, I made some wraps of metallic threads (various colors) on a piece of rod blank and placed them in my yard for a few months. In the summer we often have triple digit temps and mid to high nineties the rest of the time. I found that all of the wraps except the silver faded under such conditions. As a result I stopped using metallic threads. However, I am about to build a fly rod and the person I am building it for would like Silver trims. I would like information about the new metallic threads that are now on the market. I am particularly interested in the strength of the bond between the metallic wrap and the base thread. As I recall the metallic wrap separated on some of the threads when I did my tests. I would appreciate any information any of you have. Thanks for your help.

Michael Blomme

I can only tell of my experience, which is that I have never had a any problem of any kind with Gudbrod or Pro Wrap silver. I use it for trim, from single thread to 1/8 inch or slightly larger bands. I'm not sure how the thread can separate when encapsulated by wrap epoxy.

Michael,

If the metallic thread is separating, I would venture a guess that is a result of a thread having too much tension on it when it is wrapped. I use hand tension on all my wraps and notice if I have too much tension the metallic will pull down around the core thread. As for fading you should not have any trouble with silver metallic. I have found blue metallic fades the worst followed closely by red metallic.

Don Campbell
don@sensorfishingrods.com

On this note, not to hijack the thread, but when starting inlays or bands on a spinner (assuming same for fly) its best to start the inlay/band right at the bottom of the rod, as held while fishing. On bottom guided rods, this happens to be directly on the guide foot. Any suggestions on that?

Made me think of it because I am doing metallic green trim. Hope it doesn't fade out!!

Has anyone had separation of metallic thread from the base thread when the thread is encapsulated with wrap epoxy? It may happen, but I just don't see how it can. To separate means some part of the thread has to move, but the space into which it wants to move is already occupied by wrap epoxy. Isn't it?

Michael, I'm sure he means it separated as he was wrapping or tying off the wrap. It obviously can't move after being epoxied.

Hi Michael Thanks for your comments. The separation that I have had in the past occurred while wrapping the thread and before applying CP and finish. I know that too much tension can be a problem and I was hoping have someone tell me their experiences with different brands since there has been so many new brands on the market since I last used metallic thread.

Mike Blomme

You are absolutely correct Randy.
Mike Blomme

Metallic colors fade because the coloring is a coating on top of the base silver. As such it is thin and when exposed to sunlight it will degrade, some colors more rapidly then others. It is the "nature of the beast" and all metallics are subject to it. As for the separation, I am not sure there is a "bond" between the foil (metallic) and the carrier thread, it is possible the the foil is merely tightly spiral wrapped around it.

As for choice of a metallic, many have different appearances and some have different working characteristics, ones experience will usually lead to choosing on over the others.

Personally, I like the old Gudebrod HT and Fishhawk.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2016 04:58PM by Phil Erickson.

I second Donald's technique. I always hold trim bands or inlays in my fingers while running the main wrap through the tensioning device. I'm by no means a pro, but I havent had any issues with this technique.

The metallics from companies like Sulky are very durable because they are an embroidery thread that has to pass quickly through a needle, I have noticed no foil seperation like I occasionally had with Gudebrod. Because of the thread's uses it may do better in the sun than some others.

Michael Blomme, so your back yard tests that showed separation were of metallic wraps without any epoxy over them? No offense intended, but I don't know how that has relevance to your current concern.

I agree that if separation occurs during wrapping the tension is too high. I've use Gudbrod metallics with the old style tensioners that applied force to the thread to get tension and when they were set right the metallic did not separate. The only separation I've ever noticed is on the thread after being pulled back through, and it never ruined a wrap.

Bottom line answer to your question, Michael, is that properly tensioned silver metallic should work just fine.

Hi Michael, Thanks for your comments. My experiment was only to determine how much if any fading would occur. I had no interest in trying to find out the effects of finish. I know that given enough exposure to ultraviolet light epoxy finishes will darken. Until they can devise a hardening agent that doesn't absorb UV, which leads to molecular rearrangement, Epoxy finishes will continue to darken. Urethane finishes are transparent to to UV and will not darken.

In my own rodbuilding I always use CP. I do this because when I pick thread colors that I want to have on my rod, I want them to remain that color after applying finish (or as close as possible).

When I first began building rods in 1959, I used a cup and a dictionary to apply tension to my thread. I moved on to a Thompson Rod Wrapper which used a spring system to apply tension. I then used the two wafer system that you described, but I found them unsuitable because I felt the thread was being "crushed". I finally made a homemade gadget which consisted of a threaded rod, several washers, nuts and a wing nut that I attached to an upright made from wood. I found I could control the tension better. I do think you are correct that too high a tension was the problem in causing the separation of the metallic film that is spiral wrapped on the base thread.

The real reason I wrote this post originally was to get a better idea of the better metallic threads that people were using, I have some old metallic threads including Sulky, FishHawk, and very old Gudebrod. I don't have any Madeira, ProWrap, or Pac Bay. Again Thanks for your comments.

Mike Blomme

I also use Sulky metallic threads (on about half of my builds) with no separation issues.
Rog