Hi to all you happy wrappers, thanks for reading and hopefully assisting to resolve my Perma Gloss issues.
Without using PG before, I read the application directions and purchased a couple good quality, 3/8in artist brushes. The first coat applied to the rotating butt section resulted in a slightly streaky, lumpy finish, obviously from my “thin” coat being thicker than what PM considers thin. Also, I was caught off guard by how extremely fast the material goes off, quickly learning to move rapidly to maintain a wet edge. It was immediately apparent I was not going to be able to use a cloth to smooth and remove excess material from the rotating blank as initially anticipated. This ain’t no thread epoxy! With lessons learned, a very thin coat of PM was applied to the tip section. While the finish of the tip section was certainly better, it was not smooth as desired and expected. Given 90 minutes between, two more thin coats were applied to the butt and tip. Then, after allowing four days to cure, they have been sanded with 320 to remove the imperfections, now awaiting suggestions, procedures and techniques from you seasoned professionals to produce a perfect quality finish. After the finial coats of rod finish are applied, I would prefer to avoid the need to wet sand the blanks with 1500 followed by polishing to maintain the integrity of the naturally inherent, protective glaze. While many familiar with me from posts on this forum know me as an “over thinker”, I am equally proud of being overly picky, if not down-right anal retentive, as well. It’s just part of my charm (please take that light heartedly).
Additional questions:
1.) Are there any rod finishes with an extended pot life / working time (10+ minutes)?
2.) Is it possible to apply PG, or another rod finish, with a cloth? With as fast as PG goes off, I would think this would be quite tricky at best.
3.) Is PG sprayable? Again, I think it might be rather tricky.
4.) If thinning with Xylene is required, I am SOL as it is unavailable for sale here in Calif.
Thank you, boys and girls! Happy wrapping.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

PermaGloss is a moisture curing urethane and doesn't handle nor look like epoxy. It does have numerous advantages as a blank coating, however.

You'll never get really good results by brushing it on a rod blank. You need to wet a lint free cloth with it and swipe it on from one end to the other. Turn the blank 180 degrees and repeat. Wait about 30 minutes and apply a second application in the same manner. That should be all you need. Keep the cloth "wet" and move definitely but quickly.

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I use a foam cosmetic pad. Pour out some permagloss into a small measuring cup use the foam pad to soak up all the perma gloss. I take the saturated foam pad fold it over the blank and swipe it up and down the blank very quickly, takes less than 30 sec but not more than a minute. I wear nitrile gloves when applying. All you want to do is wet the blank with a very thin coat. I hold the blank in one hand and swipe with the other. Start at the tip and move down to the butt. When finished I just lean it against the wall with just the tip touching. The permagloss will not sag because of the thin coat. If you get sagging you applied to much! Let it set for a 1/2 hour or so and repeat to make sure you have complete coverage. If your humidity is very low (like in Southern Cal) may take a little longer. This works extremely well. Like Tom said, I have found it almost impossible to get a good finish by brushing it on. Instead of a foam cosmetic pad you can cut the foam off of a foam paint brush and use it, this also works very well just more expensive. This process gives a very nice finish that is extremely hard and will never yellow. Hope this helps.
Norm

Norman's recommendation of the foam pad is a good one. It holds more PG and allows you to get a wetter application.

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In the last issue of RodMaker magazine there was a very nice article by Mike Ballard concerning rod blank refinishing. He used a two part urethane spray on finish called Spay Max 2K. I have not tried this product yet, but the results shown looked great. It is more expensive than permagloss, but if you are doing a bunch of rods it maybe cost effective.
Norm

Thanks Tom and Norman. Dang newbies don’t know dittily-stink! At least this newbie knows enough to ask for qualified, professional and reliable help on this website.
Norman, does your wife know you have been ripping off her cosmetic pads? Please tell me you don’t use them other than for rod construction. Without any pads to rip off in my household, it’s off to Home Depot for foam paint brushes. I will certainly test them first as I would think, with all the nasty volatiles in PG, like Xylene, the foam would melt or go poof. Apparently, those of us in California are more sensitive and susceptible to cancer from chemicals than the rest of the Nation. Hopefully the cut foam brushes work as there is no lint to worry about. Great idea / technique! It is similar to the way I have used other material to finish a rod, with perfect (cosmetic, at least) results, prior to being told it was not a proper rod finish material.
Is there any reason to not spin the rod while applying the PG?

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

All sorts of things have been known to cause cancer in California, but not in other places. Hard to believe geography can have such an effect! You can find the cosmetic sponges in the pharmacy/cosmetic section of your grocery store. I use the Kroger brand. You get a dozen or so for a couple of bucks and they have a very fine, dense and smooth foam The foam brushes are about a buck apiece and their foam is coarser. If you get foam brushes get the ones with the unfinished wood handle, the cheap ones with the plastic handles may fall apart. I do spin the rod in my hand while applying, but I usually do not spin on a rod lathe just because the supports get in the way and you tend to apply too heavy a coat and go to slow. I find it best for me to just wipe it on and do it very quickly. If you do it quickly you can do a couple of rods with the same pad. This does not mean you cannot spin the rod on you lathe if you wish, but why make a very easy and fast procedure more trouble. If you do spin on a lathe go about 100 rpms or so and move the pad about a foot every 2-3 seconds while sqeezing the pad with your fingers against the blank. Again you just want to just wet the blank with a very thin coat. This will 'squeegee' the perma gloss onto the blank. Thin is better! You can always add another coat or two.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2016 12:09AM by Norman Miller.

Norman,
Touché’ on the California cancer! While we may not have the same hardware stores out here as elseware, we all have Kroger brand grocery items and hopefully the cosmetic pads as well. Finer cell construction certainly seems like a plus, but I will still pretest them just in case our California spec pads differ from the geographically different / immune world.
Your time, kindness and willing to share is graciously appreciated!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Some foam will melt if used with PermaGloss. Some is fine. The common grey foam paint brushes seem to hold up okay. The black foam brushes will melt.

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Foam cosmetic pads here also, walmart sells a couple doz for a buck.
The ones I got come precut in small triangles.
I dip them in the PG like norm suggested but then I poke the tip section thru the wet foam and slowly drag it over the butt end.

I have tried spinning the blank on the lathe and applying the PG with a brush and had the same results as the OP

Mark, I can answer your first 2 questions, yes and yes. also a wetted coffee filter works well as an applicator. You must move fast as Tom said, and do not try to go back over anything already coated until dry.

Thanks also to Paul and Lynn for taking the time to respond and assist. I purchased the Kroger pads not realizing they were such small triangles, but really like the fine cell construction. Poking the blank through the PG saturated small pad is a great idea for smaller rods, but this old FG Conolon is a fatty with a 3/4in butt section, bigger than the pad itself. I may see what McMaster Carr has to offer in a micro, open cell foam, large enough to fit around this blank while maintaining an adequate amount of PG. Evenly coating the entire circumference in one pass seems to be the most beneficial in producing the best finish. Lots of great ideas from a great group of guys!!! Thanks again.
Norman, if your wife's pad inventory is running low, I may have a fresh, unopened batch for her.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Mark, the pads I get are circles 2" in diameter about a 1/4" thick. Went down to the shop and looked at the label and they are Kroger brand foundation sponges. Did not know they made triangles. They come in a package as foam rectangles with the circles stamped out, in between the circles are small triangles. Are you sure the circles are not in there? They are made to fit a woman's compact. If you want a package of them I will be happy to send them to you, just email me. My wife does not use them but I certainly do, they really work well for PG coating blanks.
Norm

Norman, Tom, Paul & Lynn,
Blank refinish update if interested.
I just wanted to thank you guys again for assisting me PG finish my blank. With their very fine, micro size, open cells, the cosmetic pads worked exceptionally well. I discovered a hole was needed (before reading Norman’s last post) or the pad became too tight on the blank, leaving to light of a coat. I used 0.5 OD X 0.14 wall brass tubing as a punch for the butt section pad and 0.375 for the tip. The tip section OD ranges from 0.165 to 0.550 while the butt ranges from 0.550 to 0.725. This time, my over thinking was required. Next refinish job, I will make the holes slightly larger than the biggest OD, as squeezing the pad down to the smaller dia of the tip caused no negative effect on the finish while assisting the ease and finish consistency while wiping the blank. I stacked two of the smaller pads together to make sure they did not run dry in the middle of the blank and will certainly look for the larger, circular size. How large is the holes in the circular pads?
The amount of saved labor, drying time and effort in addition to the quality of the final finish trumps (as Tom likes to say) the amount of wasted PG, even for this cheap bast!@*!!!!
I owe you guys one.
Appreciatively ,

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I am happy to hear that things came out well, and you got the finish you were looking for. The circular pads do not have a hole, I just saturate the pad and wipe. Never saw the small triangle pads you are talking about in Krogers. I found the circular Kroger foam sponges several years ago and since they worked so well never needed to look for anything else. Prior to that I used the foam paint brushes that also worked well. Still use the foam brushes for clear coating carbon fiber grips. If you can not find the circular pads, let me know and I will send you some so you can try them.
Norm

You’re the best Norman! I will graciously accept your offer if unable to locate the larger, circular, Kroger brand cosmetic pads. I cannot imagine anything else performing better. While the finish did not come out perfect, I give it an honest 90 – 95% which is acceptable while experimenting and learning. I am confident, thanks to your assistance, all the future refinished rods will be 99 – 100%.
Happy wrapping!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

I watched a video where a guy cut up a Gaterade bottle and cap.He cut the bottle cap out to form a "seal ring" on it's outer diameter.He cut a circular piece of a surgical glove to fit inside the bottle cap.Put a very small hole in the rubber glove piece using a heated nail.
He cut the bottom off of the bottle and screwed the cap on tightly.
He made a stand to hold the rod upright with the handle downward,slid the little hole in the rubber cap over the top of the rod and poured rod finish in it.
He then pulled the bottle upward and over the end(top) of the rod.
It works similar to a circular squeegee.

Thomas C. Kuzia
Beacon Falls,Ct

Thank you for responding, Thomas. I will remember that method but right now the cosmetic pad is working very well.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Thomas C Kuzia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I watched a video where a guy cut up a Gaterade
> bottle and cap.He cut the bottle cap out to form a
> "seal ring" on it's outer diameter.He cut a
> circular piece of a surgical glove to fit inside
> the bottle cap.Put a very small hole in the rubber
> glove piece using a heated nail.
> He cut the bottom off of the bottle and screwed
> the cap on tightly.
> He made a stand to hold the rod upright with the
> handle downward,slid the little hole in the rubber
> cap over the top of the rod and poured rod finish
> in it.
> He then pulled the bottle upward and over the
> end(top) of the rod.
> It works similar to a circular squeegee.


I have seen traditional wooden arrows coated by the same method. I believe there is a device sold for this purpose, if interested you might look at some traditional archery supply places.

Instead of going thought all that with permagloss try a auto clear Can be adjusted to dry slower Thin and as hard This way when wiped on it stays wetter longer so is a lot easier to use
And is not hot so will not eat into most Lacquer paints If you us an enamel all bets are off

Bill - willierods.com