I'm looking for a 5 1/2 or 6' blank for river bass fishing with 6 or 8 lb mono. I built a rod on a MSCS721-MHX blank with minima guides and cut to 5 1/2' and don't find it sensitive enough. For several years I used a Basspro Extreme 5 1/2' 2-8 lb and din't find it sensitive enough so built the MHX rod. I fish from a kayak and have to cast under many trees so the shorter rod is a help. Would the HM MHX blank be better or something else. Oh yeah, I'm an old man on a short fixed income. I know I'll probably have to cut the blank to the length I want. Thanks. Alex

Alex

I was building for someone a couple of weeks ago and using one of the MHX spin jig blanks and I was wondering at the time how well that blank would do in a situation like your describing. Take a look at the SJ782-MHX. I think that if you were to trim 6" - 8" off that blank you would wind up with a mod-fast blank that would perform well with light line and light lures. I have a rod that I use use just as you describe that I built a long while ago on a 5'9" Fenwick blank (that tells you how old the rod is) and it's still one of my favorites. I was imagining how close the MHX spin Jig blank felt to my trusty old Fenwick if it was just a touch shorter. I'm sure our good friends at Mudhole could offer a little more help.

Sam

Thanks for the response Sam. I've been rethinking and reading some things that I think might help my sensitivity problem. One thing is the monofilament line and I just bought a spool of fluorocarbon 6 lb line for less stretch. I usually use a 1/16th oz bullet weight and a finesse plastic worm. What I'm comparing is the feel from lake fishing and river fishing. I use a older Basspro baitcasting 85 million modulus rid and 8 lb fluorocarbon line for worm fishing 3 or 4 times a week and the lighter spinning rod 1 or 2 times a week in a river. I can feel much better on the lake where my line is in a straight line to the bait. Next week I'm taking the baitcaster to the river to compare. You don't think the HM-SJ781-MHX or 782 blank will help? Thanks.

St. Croix 2S56LF, or 2S56MF depending on how much power you want in the butt and your lure weights. Had no problem with sensitivity in either one. There is also the 2C56MF casting blank for more power, the blank doesn't care how you build it. How you set up the guides for your application will effect sensitivity too, perfect application for micro guides IMO. With the lighter lines, and your application you may be able to reduce the size of the first guides from the reel substantially with no loss in casting performance. The smaller guides improve balance, sensitivity, and cost less also.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2016 02:39PM by Spencer Phipps.

Alex

Spencer has a good thought about how to improve sensitivity and others may chime in with thier thoughts. I think the HMX would be a good choice but not necessarily a better choice than what may already have. I suggested it because I had one in my hand and I liked the nice, light fast tip that jigging rods have - after all they were designed for fishing jigs and the feel or touch of the rod would be a primary objective of the designer. The blank is fast but by shortening from the butt end you would slow the action of the rod and likely wind up with a moderate-fast rod. At heart I'm a river fisherman but I don't have the same touch or feel on moving river water as when fishing the same rod with the same lure as I do in lakes. Maybe it's the current and water movement in flowing rivers or the bottom surface but the "feel" of the bite in the rivers is often dulled and not nearly as sharp as lake fishing. I've always attributed that to the bow or bend that occurs to the line as it's swept by the current whereas i can keep the line taunt in lakes. I'm wondering if a braided line might help your situation and be an economical way of addressing your "feel" problem? If not, you've got a built in excuse to build another rod.

Sam

I was also thinking a high-vis braid may give you the sensitivity that you're looking for with your existing rods. A Batson Immortal 6'2" XF blank may be a good choice for a new rod using mono.


In my opinion, with moving water sensitivity is only half the answer. An Extra fast tip is key to getting the bait to react quickly enough (especially with mono) to avoid snags with the bow in the line caused by the current. With a slowish rod (for instance a fast blank that has been trimmed and is now a "moderate" action blank) you may feel everything, but the rod is too slow to react so the bait gets snagged or dropped by the fish much more often by the time the rod moves the line.

Good luck.

Alex,
If you need to trim a rod and want to keep as much sensitivity as possible, do NOT touch the tip of the rod.

Rather, trim from the butt of the rod to maintain the sensitivity. Often on a very sensitive or extra fast action rod, the last 1/2 inch of rod section at the tip is where the action is so to speak. So, don't trim it off.

By the way, a lot of tests have been done comparing various lines. One of the surprising things that have come out of the test, is that fluorocarbon line stretches about the same as mono line. Of course there are differences in all lines, so it is up to you to do the selection.

Any of the spun, gel or braided line in fact do stretch much less than mono line.

But for your situation, lots of different approaches for the solution. Do chat with some fishermen in the area that fish the same waters for clues as to their solution to the situation that you face.

If you have not had the opportunity, check out the Batson line of rod blanks. A huge selection in various grades with the perfect rod blank in the group to help with your situation.

[www.rainshadowrodblanks.com]

I'd have to say that the difference in feel you're experiencing between lake and river fishing, is tied more to the amount of weight you're using than it is to the blank of the rod. Look at dealing with current in the water the same way you look at dealing with wind, and you'll see what I mean.

The more wind you have, the more weight you need to use to maintain the same level of contact with your bait. Depending on the depth of water and the amount of current you're fishing, you may find that you need to double or even triple the amount of weight you're using, to counteract those conditions. Especially if you're trying to maintain contact with the bottom.

I believe your move from a standard or co polymer mono to a fluorocarbon line is a step in the right direction. Most fluorocarbon lines are smaller in diameter than their regular mono filament counterparts, and they're more dense. Both of those characteristics are going to help you maintain better contact with your bait in current situations. As for the difference in the amount of stretch between standard mono, and fluorocarbon lines that Roger mentioned .... what he said is true. Some fluorocarbon lines stretch just as much, if not more, than some standard or co polymer mono filament lines. Generally, the less supple fluorocarbon lines have less stretch than standard mono filament lines. And therein lies the rub, as a not so supple line presents more problems when being used on spinning gear.

While I understand the mention of considering a braided line to aid with sensitivity, I personally would go with a standard nylon mono or fluorocarbon line. With that said, there are a lot of people that love braid, especially on spinning gear, and with good reason ...... I'm just not one of them. I only use braid when the situation absolutely calls for it. And IMO, this is not a situation that absolutely calls for it.

I'd increase the amount of weight you're using, and of course, just as in lake fishing, adjust that amount of weight to the situation at hand. And in river fishing, watching your line is even more important. You can have the most sensitive rod and line combination known to man, and still not feel a bite ...... but you may be able to see it.

I don't know anything about "river bass fishing" so keep that in mind.

I find there are two different ways in which "sensitive" is measured. One is about what you feel and one is about what you see. When it comes to feeling I like a stiffer tip like a spin jig and I think St. Croix is one of the best. When it comes to seeing I'm currently in a love affair with hot shot blanks. I don't like slower action rods but they do have there place for lures with treble hooks.

I think it would help if we knew just what lures/techniques you were using to catch these river bass.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Interesting discussion. Everyone has a different opinion on what I should try. By the way Russ I use a plastic worm and usually a 1/16 oz bullet weight unless the current is heavy then I'll use 1/8th oz. In our low water conditions the 1/8th gets hung too often to use it. The first thing I'm going to try is the fluorocarbon line, next is the MHX SJ782 blank, then if all else fails, braided line. Right now I can't afford a high $ blank. Thanks everyone.

Reminds me of some 100 fish days on the Umpqua River in Oregon. I use an IM6 G Loomis SJR700 for your purposes, awesome rod for the job. No one to my knowledge makes a similar or better blank for the job.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2016 11:03PM by Spencer Phipps.

First I have to ask, what kind of fish is that? I'm almost 100% certain it's a smallmouth, but I've never seen one with that coloring. It almost looks like a hybrid of some sort.

Anyhow ........ I think going with a fluorocarbon line is a good choice. If I may, I'd like to suggest a couple fluorocarbon lines I would avoid, if I were you? Please understand that these are just my personal feelings. I'm not a professional angler or anything of the sort, but I have tried many different fluorocarbon lines in my search for the best fluorocarbon line to use on spinning gear.

I personally would avoid Seaguar InvisX. I know a lot of people that use it, and like it, but IMO it's really nothing more than a high priced regular mono filament line. It stretches more than most regular monos, so you'll gain little if any sensitivity as the result of using a line with less stretch. Like standard mono filament lines, it absorbs gobs of water, so it loses breaking strength, knot strength, and abrasion resistance while gaining stretch. And IMO it is one of the worst handling, and knot tying fluorocarbon line there is.

I'd also avoid Gamma Edge fluorocarbon line. It's a little better than InvisX when it comes to abrasion resistance, and sensitivity, but it's not as small in diameter. And it doesn't last as long on the spool as the majority of fluorocarbon lines I've used, do. But it does handle better than the above mentioned InvisX.

I know you said you're on a limited fixed income, but if you could find yourself a way to try Seaguar Tatsu fluorocarbon line in either 6# or 8# test, (depending on the size of your reel and your reel's spool) you would doing yourself a gigantic favor. It is truly a remarkable line, and worth every penny of its price, and them some.

It is one of, if not the best handling fluorocarbon line on the market. And it is definitely the best handling fluorocarbon line I have ever used on spinning gear.

It's the "bee's knees"

Oh ..... in addition. I built a 6' rod for bass on an MHX SJ783 blank that I use for throwing hard and soft jerkbaits. Trimming the 6" off the butt slowed the action and reduced some of the power, but that doesn't change the tip. It's a nice and pretty sensitive rod that works very well for its intended purpose. My guess is that you'd be very happy with a rod you built on an SJ blank, if you were to end up going that route.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2016 08:14AM by David Baylor.

The MHX SJ 782 is not a bad choice and may do what you want. I think the MHX 6'6" ML elite pro (EPS78ML) might also be a very good choice. This is an extra fast rod so when you cut it back you will slow the blank to a fast action or moderate fast action depending how much you cut it. In addition, I believe it uses a higher modulus graphite fiber than the regulat MHX blanks which will help to increase sensitivity. I have built several elite pro rods and they are very nice, but have not cut any of them back.
I use braid almost exclusively for both casting and spinning and do not see any downsides. I started using it when I was spillway fishing for bass, stripers, and hybrids in current It casts further and easier then mono or fluorocarbon, and in my opinion is many times more sensitive. In addition hooks sets are much more positive and I lose fewer fish. After I started using braid, mono and fluorocarbon line felt dead to me when I used them. I should mention that I do use a short (3 feet) fluorocarbon leader attached to the braid via an FG knot. Some people do not like braid, but not me! If you have never tried braid give it a try. Just remember to use a little mono as backing on your reel to keep it from slipping on the spool, and put it on under tension.
Norm

David, It's a shoal bass I caught last weekend. They're more elongated than a smallmouth and green, not brown. They're indigenous to the Chattahoochee/Flint River drainage in GA and FL. I've been using Vicious fluorocarbon for several years with good results for lake fishing so will load a spool. Norman, Thanks for the suggestions. I've been using braid for several things but never on a river rod and explained why in a previous post. Maybe I'll give it try though.

Alex, I am not sure if you are planning to build your rod as a spinning or casting rod, but in either case making the guide train as light as possible will really help with the overall feel and performance of the rod. For short light spinning rod I would go with minima guides using a size 16 M, an 8M, and an 6M, as reduction guides, followed by size 4F guides, as runners. A complete set of these minima guides (8 total) weigh less than a size 25 V or Y type ceramic guide, they also weigh less than the microwave stripper, and about the same as a minima size 25 V frame. In my opinion, there is no lighter spin guide train available. They would be set up using the Fuji KR GPS. This guide train is a real performance enhancer. For a casting rod, I would use minima size 8 and size 6 dbl ft T guides as butt guides followed by size 4 minima F guides. Again this is a very light guide train that will also enhance rod performance. A set of either the spin guides or casting guides are very inexpensive, and thus are worth a try.
I would bet that rewrapping your current rod with either of these guide trains would improve its performance.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2016 12:41PM by Norman Miller.

Thanks Norm. I wrapped my present rod with minima guides but in larger sizes for the light weight. I think I have a 25, 16, 10 and 3- 6s along with a light reel seat. I used it this morning in the lake and It's not nearly as sensitive as my Basspro 85 modulus casting rod with 1/8 oz weight, a finesse worm and fluorocarbon 8 lb line. The MHX CS721 has a 1/16th oz weight, the same worm and 6 lb mono. I think I'll try the HM-SJ782-MHX blank cut to 5 1/2 or 6' with the guides and reel seat you recommend. But first I have a reel with braid and a spool with fluorocarbon I'll try. BTW I'm using the lightest reels I could find, an Okuma Helios 30 and an RTX 30s that weigh under 7 oz. What I'm trying to say is I'd like to compare apples to apples.

Alex, thanks for identifying that fish for me. In all honesty, my saying that I was almost 100% certain it was a smallmouth was at the very least, a stretch. The only smallmouth looking thing about it is the rear section of the dorsal fin. And even it didn't look right.

Anyhow ..... I re read your posts, and I'm bit confused. If you want the apples to apples comparison that you mentioned in your latest post, you're not going to get it comparing rods that are using different line types, and different weights. You have to use the same line, and the same weight, or you're just spinning your wheels.

The same goes for river and lake fishing. In my experience, river fishing, because of the current, has always required using more weight to maintain the same level of contact with your bait, than it does in still water. Heck, you can see that when fishing a river and your bait drifts into a current seam, or slack water. Smaller diameter and a heavier more dense line will help in current, but it's still an adjustment that has to be made.

And finally, as to the difference you may or may not see between the MHX CS721 blank of the rod you're currently using, and the MHX SJ721 blank that you want to build a new rod on? While I don't know the particulars as far as the materials used to build each blank. I will say that the first blank I sampled to build the jerkbait rod I mentioned earlier, was a CS723. When I received the blank it had a pretty bad dog leg bend near the tip, and it was a bit more powerful through the mid section than I was looking for, so I returned it because of the defect, and Mud Hole allowed me to select a different blank. I chose the SJ783 mentioned earlier and I found the power curve much more to my liking, but when testing the sensitivity of the blanks, (I drag the tip of blanks across the carpet to try and get a feel for their sensitivity) to the best of recollection, both blanks felt the same as far as sensitivity goes.

I will say that I didn't compare the blanks side by side, because I had to return the one (not unexpectedly) before I could receive the other.

I guess what I'm trying to say as respectfully as I can ....... if you want to build a new rod, that's all well and good. But if you're looking for more sensitivity between those two MHX blanks. I think you're going to be sadly disappointed. A lighter guide train is going to help, but I have a feeling you're looking for a level of sensitivity that can only be achieved by at least going to a blank like the MHX Pro Elite series that Norman mentioned earlier, or the Rainshadow Immortal series that Dan mentioned earlier.

I've built on the Immortal series of blanks. They are phenomenal.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2016 05:41PM by David Baylor.

David, I'm putting the same line, weight and worm on my lake worm rod and will test tomorrow. I'm thinking about going to a HM-SJ781-MHX or HM-SJ782, cutting to somewhere between 5'6" and 6', using the guides and reel seat that Norm recommended, when my ship comes in. I looked at the IMMWS62MXF-TC Rainshadow blank and it looked like the best match for my purpose, what do you think? I'd have to cut some off also. It's less expensive than the MHX blank too.

Spencer,
Isn't the Northfork 5100 the same as the SJR700?

Alex, I don't have any experience with the high modulus line of blanks from MHX, so I can't give you any idea of how that series compares to the Immortal line of blanks from Rainshadow. Having only built 6 rods for myself thus far, I'm still new to rod building.

With that said, I'll just say what I said earlier. The Immortal line of blanks are phenomenal. The two rods I've built on Immortal blanks, are the most responsive and sensitive rods I've ever fished. The blanks are light with crisp and smooth actions. There is no doubt in my mind that you'll absolutely love a rod you build on any of the blanks from that series.

If you're wondering about the titanium chrome color of the blank? I think it's absolutely gorgeous, and not gaudy at all. Very elegant in my book.

From looking at the specs of the IMMWS62MXF that Dan and now you mention. They look spot on to me. My latest build was a finesse casting rod that I built on an IMMC73ML blank. It has the same specs as far as lure weight goes. It is very sensitive, casts light baits (1/8 oz jig with a 3" Kalin grub) very well, and has more than enough power to handle any fish I've caught on it thus far. The biggest fish being an about 3 lb (lake) smallmouth.

As Norman mentioned earlier, you're going to slow the over all action of the blank by trimming it, but with the range of weights you'll be throwing with it, I doubt you'll notice that until you have a fish on. The tip is still going to stay nice and fast. You're also going to lose some power by trimming the butt. But once again, you won't notice that until you have a fish on. How much power you lose, just as with how much you'll slow the overall action of the blank, is going to depend on how much you trim off.

If you don't mind, I'll share my thoughts on trimming the blank as well. Believe me, I completely understand why you would want to trim the blank. You fish from a kayak. I don't have to tell you that a longer rod can present problems with casting from that close to the water. Much easier to make quick and accurate casts under overhanging trees as you drift down river. I totally understand. And a shorter rod also makes it easier and less stressful on the rod itself, when bringing a fish to the boat.

With that said, I personally would mock up the rod with the guides and reel seat in place based on the length of the finished rod you want, and see if it's what you're looking for as far as action and casting characteristics go. If you don't like it, you can always ream your reel seat arbor or whatever you use to fit your reel seat to the blank, and try again. You're going to fishing the new rod for a long time, may as well take the time to make sure it's right, before you do something you can't reverse.

Also, a longer rod makes it easier to keep line off the water. A very important thing when it comes to controlling your drift in river fishing.

And finally. (right?) I don't know your views on a balanced rod and reel combination. Some members of this site are very averse to the idea of adding weight at the butt of rod in order to achieve a balanced rod and reel combination, regardless of the technique the rod is being used for. I am not one of those members. If I'm building a rod that is going to be use for slack, or semi slack line techniques, I am going to do whatever it takes to ensure my rod and reel combination are at the very least, neutrally balanced. I actually prefer a slightly tip light feel when fishing the above mentioned kind of techniques. It aids in bite detection. Especially when using lighter baits.

I added 1 ounce to the butt of the rod I built on the Immortal 73ML blank I mentioned earlier, just so I could get the type of balance I prefer. And I can assure you that if I built an identical rod, but didn't add the weight at the butt, that you would swear that the rod with the weight added felt lighter when being held in fishing position.

Good luck with your build.