I would like to know on a casting rod, what is the lightest handle configuration, I'm mainly interested in the following handles.

1. Split Grips in Cork, EVA, Carbon Fiber, & Winn grips or combinations of these.

2. Full Handles in Cork, EVA, Carbon Fiber, & Winn Grips.

If you know what each of these weigh that would be awesome, trying to make a decision and weighing all the options.

Or does anyone know where to find such information, Lets say Premium grade split cork is lightest, then how much more weight will EVA, Carbon Fiber, Winn grips add to a rod build?

Thanks

The lightest would be foam-cored, carbon skinned grips, but the weight will vary a bit from builder to builder in terms of the foam density and/or finish depth. Cork would fall in close behind.

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Thanks Tom, That's what I was thinking, any idea of what the weight savings would be using the Carbon Fiber skinned grips over the others? I don't have all the components at this time or I would assemble and weigh them, I have a friend wanting me to build him the lightest build possible, so I'm trying to get ideas to share with him before we start the build.
Thanks again. I appreciate it.

We all like "light", but the end user needs to consider the weight of the reel that he will eventually hang on it...the heaviest component of all.

The weight savings over cork would be very slight, but you'd have a more rigid grip which will be more sensitive. When you starting want to shave weight, you start with the blank and from there eliminate everything that isn't absolutely necessary. Don't put anything on the rod that isn't actually to be used, or that is beyond anything he'll grasp, etc.

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I have weighed cork and Winn's of equal size and Winn's is lighter. It has a core very much like carbon fiber, and the skin is very thin. Keep in mind there are a number of densities for the cores of carbon fiber.

The lightest rod I mentioned (3.44 oz) is the second of two identical Point Blanks that I made. Same reel seat, same guides, same blank,
same wraps. But the first had natural, high quality, cork grips and weighed 3.6 oz.

Thank you all for the valuable information, the rod he is wanting built will be on a PB blank as well. This is one of many builds to come for him, and I appreciate the experience and knowledge shared on this site. Thank you

Rich, I'm curious as to what the rod he wants you to build will be used for? Personally, I think people have become obsessed with the weight of the rod, and forget about the balance of the rod. If the rod is going to be used for slack, or semi slack line techniques, then balance is IMO vastly more important than the actual weight of the rod.

An over all heavier rod may not actually be more sensitive than a lighter one, but I can assure you that for the techniques mentioned above, a balanced or slightly butt heavy, or tip light rod (whichever of the latter terms you prefer) is going to feel more sensitive.

The move to lighter reels in conjunction with a super light split rear grip exacerbate the problem of balancing a rod and reel combination.

Just something to think about, and something you may want to consider asking your customer about.

David it's a Jig Rod, this guy fishes jigs 90% of the time and has several custom rods, and usually has 1-2 built a year. On this rod he was hoping to have it built around 3.5 oz, but stressed he would like it to be as light as possible yet still perform, thus my reason for asking about the handle weights. Thanks

Rich,
The lightest handle of all would be to put no handle at all on the rod.

Rather, just glue 4 pieces of cork onto the rod for the reel and tape the reel to the rod. No fore grip, no rear grip and not butt cap.

You will not get a rod lighter. Then, if you want to save more weight, just tie the line to the butt of the rod and put the line in a coil in front of you so you would not have a reel on the rod either.

Since you do not have a reel on the rod, you would not need anything more than about 2 or 3 guides on the rod as well.

When you catch a fish, you drop the rod in the boat and hand line the fish to the boat. I expect that you could have a rod that weighs about 1.6 ozs, or essentially the weight of the rod blank , but would you really want to fish with a rod like this?

But you wanted to know how to get the lightest setup, and that would be it.

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As others have said, I really think that the concern with weight is really overblown. One gets concerned with saving 1/2 oz of weight on a setup on a rod and then put an 8 oz reel on the rod. I suggest that the real concern should be to insure that you have a very light balanced rod with a light tip section. The fact that there is a 1/2 or 1 1/2 ozs of weight in the butt of the rod, is really a complete non issue with respect to fishing with the rod all day.

But, again, all of these things are your choice.

I trust that you ask the same thing about the reel that is used on the rod as well? i.e. using the very lightest reel possible on the rod? I might suggest that one can likely save more weight on a rig, by getting a lighter reel, than spending a huge amount of time and effort to save 2 or 3 grams of weight from the rod.

Good luck

Roger, I appreciate the info, but like my original post he wants the lightest rod he can get, built with either cork, carbon fiber, Winn or eva grips. I sent him an e-mail and he will be putting a Revo MGX, or team Lews light @ 5.6oz He is OK with the Winn grips but was worried about the sensitivity compared to say premium grade cork? I personally would like to see the rod get carbon fiber grips, but they are not for everyone and I get that. Thanks again for all the valuable insight, this is a great site and I'm happy to have found it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2016 09:59AM by Rich Henderson.

If you expect to encounter this kind of issue in the future I suggest you build a demo rod with split grip carbon fiber (basically just a reel seat with short ramps off both ends and a butt knob.) You and your customers will be very surprised at how comfortable the rod is with carbon fiber in contact with the hands. Then you will have it just about as light as is reasonably possible, the sensitivity of light/rigid, and the surprising comfort of carbon fiber.

This photo shows what I mean for sizing the ramps. These ramps don't even have carbon fiber, just reel seat shims + wrap epoxy, and they work fine. I have them that are many years old that look like new. I have not tried the method for butt knobs; I think the exposure to stresses is much higher with a butt knob. If I were to use carbon fiber for the butt knob, I would match it with the ramps.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Michael,
Any reason to put a ramp on the front of the reel seat.
Many of the rods that I build today, no longer have anything in front of the reel seat except a winding check. I use a piece of cork for the front 1/2 inch of arbor and just finish off the cork flush with the front of the reel seat and a winding check in front of that.

I personally, don't like just a ramp on the rear of the reel seat, I like a handle shaped so that it flares up at the rear to cup palm when gripping the rod. I just personally find this style to be very comfortable and good for many hours of use each day.

But, that is what is nice about Custom rods. You can do anything to a rod when you build it that works for you and a client if you are building for a client.

I generally show clients a half dozen different grip styles and reel seats and let them make their choice with the option always open to do something else that they might have in mind as well.

Be safe

Rich you could also consider Syncork. It's lighter than organic cork and an excellent option IMHO.

You can see it here: [getrodblanks.com]

Roger, the ramp at the rear is only for cosmetics, to balance the appearance of the one in front. The one in front is very comfortable, is there for comfort and sensitivity. If you do the seat uplocking, with the threads at the rear and a ramp just under the OD of the reel hood in front, you'll find EVERYTHING you touch will be smooth and comfortable, and will be very sensitive since it's made of rigid foam or carbon fiber. If you have not tried it, you are missing what I think is the most comfortable, best looking, most sensitive finesse rod setup. Its appearance alone, being as streamlined as it is, with no winding checks, makes an appearance that I think would sell like hotcakes. I just build for myself, charity, and family, so have not tested the custom sales waters.

My most recent build with carbon fiber was built with a soft touch size 16 aero seat, up locking, and a carbon fiber ramp off the front. Knowing the details of the aero seat, you know that that ramp was quite large in diameter. Its overall shape was the same as the eva part that AmTak sells to go with that seat. With that ramp off the front, and with its size, it will surprise you with how natural and comfortable it is. Most rod features are too small for good ergonomics, and "feeling the blank" with threads under your fingers is not my idea of comfort. Try it, you'll like it.

Michael,
The grip that you pictured looks to be a very nice comfortable grip.

I personally prefer the use of a hidden hood, full grip and reel seat for spinning reels.

I have built many other types of grips, but probably 80% of my personal spinning rods use the hidden hood full grip.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

That hidden hood provides a function a lot like a ramp off the front of an uplocking seat with a ramp off the hood.

Here is a pic of the Aero rod mentioned earlier.

[www.bassresource.com]

Not directed at anyone in particular, but more just to give credence to something I mentioned in my earlier post about how lighter reels and rear grips exacerbate the problem of balancing a rod and reel combo.

I just finished my latest build about a month ago. I built a finesse casting rod on an Immortal IMMC73ML blank. I used Fuji CLAG 4.5's as runners (8 of them) and CLNAG's for the reduction train (3 of them) Reel seat was an Alps MVT with the thread barrel trimmed very short. Instead of a fore grip, I used a 1/2" thick piece of EVA turned down to match the OD of the thread barrel to cap the end of the thread barrel and allow the hood nut to slide over the nub to install the reel. I left off the locking ring that came with the hood/nut assembly.

Rear grip is split using EVA foam. a couple of aluminum trim rings (to add some bling and weight) and rubber winding checks complete the components of the rear grip. I haven't been building long, but all of the 7' rods I've built I've placed the back of the reel seat 9 - 9 1/2" from the butt. On this recent rod, since I knew the reel I was going to be putting on it was lighter than my other reels (1.2 oz. lighter) I pushed the measurement to the back of the reel seat out to 10 1/2" from butt. I did this to aid in balancing the rod. BTW, 10 1/2" is the max I would personally go for a rear grip length on a rod I'd be using for slack or semi slack line techniques.

Anything longer would just be too cumbersome for me personally.

Anyhow ... I completed the build except for gluing on the butt cap. I left it off because I was going to be adding weight inside the butt of the blank so I could get the balance I was looking for. As an experiment that I could later reference on this web site, I mounted one of my older and heavier reels on the rod. The balance point for the rod and reel was just on to the blank in front of the reel seat. The rod was just a bit tip heavy for my liking, so I taped a 3/16 oz tungsten worm weight to the butt. Adding that weight moved the balance point to the nut of the reel seat. The rod and reel felt neutral in my hand.

Next I mounted the lighter reel on the rod. The reel being 1.2 oz lighter than the previous reel made the rod uncomfortably tip heavy. No way would I fish a technique that requires sensitivity with that tip heavy of a rod. So I taped a 1/2 oz tungsten cylindrical drop shot weight to the butt. The rod was still tip heavy so I added a 1/4 oz. tungsten worm weight. After adding 3/4 oz the balance point for the rod with the lighter reel was the same as it was with the heavier reel, without any weight added to the butt.

As I wanted the rod to be slightly tip light. I took off the 1/4 oz worm weight and added another 1/2 oz cylindrical weight. Viloa !!! Exactly what I was looking for. So I had to add 3/4 oz at the butt, to equal 1.2 oz lighter at the reel seat, and 1 full oz at the butt to over come 1.2 oz lighter at the reel seat.

Now I am certain that there are those that may read this post and think I'm crazy for adding 1 oz of weight to a rod just so it's balanced. That's all well and good in my book. All I know is that if I built an exact copy of the rod and reel combination in question, one with and one without the weight I added at the butt, they would tell me 100% of the time, that the rod without the weight added, feels heavier.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2016 09:00AM by David Baylor.

David very good post and information. Thank you for sharing it with us. I agree balance is a key factor, probably more so than total weight. I will try to explain this to my guy, we had a pretty good talk yesterday and I was able to share some insight with him. After talking he informed me he has several Helium LTA Rods and that's what really turned him onto the light weight rods. He prefers cork, split grip but said he would like to see & feel, a rod that was built with carbon fiber split grips, so I'm going build one as a demo so he can handle the rod and then make his final decision.

So I'm back to my original question, and that is, which grip or grips combination do you prefer on a Bass Casting Rod? I guess it's all personal preference and that's the nice thing about having a custom rod built.

Thanks again to all who shared your thoughts & ideas on this subject, it's been very informative for sure.