Mmmmmm... I've got a 7'11" (Abu Veritas) blank I'm covert in to a K concept guide system.. Butt guide is a bkwag 10. Next guide is a bkwag 6. That is followed by 3-bkbag 4's and then 7-bktag 4's. With a list 4.5-6. I'm using tubing to hold the guides. Here's my problem...

When attempting to test cast this set up I can make soft pitches-flips and even a lazy overhand cast - but that doesn't tell me anything. When I rear back and load the rod up, as soon as I start forward motion the bkbag closest to the butt guide lets go taking out all remaining belly and tip guides. I did the static load guide placement and am comfortable with the location of the tip and belly guides. I'm considering wrapping and finishing the tip and belly guides THEN work on positioning the bkwag 6 & 10. Is this a good idea or a bad'un? This set up is a dedicated c-rig only set up and a Tatula HD w/50# braid completes the package. The Tatula with the T-wing is what prompted me to go with the bkwag 10 butt guide. Oh... And... The only weigh this combo ever sees is a 1oz. Egg sinker + the bait.

Casting reel, right? You specify 12 guides on an 8 foot rod, then say "with a list 4.5-6" What does "with a list 4.5-6" mean?

I test cast my rods with tape holding them down. It holds better than the dental type bands as those are stretchy. Once casted and positioned I use dental bands to hold down guides when wrapping.
Thanks,
Dan G

Michael Danek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Casting reel, right? You specify 12 guides on an
> 8 foot rod, then say "with a list 4.5-6" What
> does "with a list 4.5-6" mean?


Awwww.... Ya' gotta love iPad auto spell check. That "list" was sposed to read lgst 4.5 - 6. That is the tip-top. 4.5 ring with 6.0 tube.

Thanks Dan, I'll give that a try.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2016 10:09PM by Doug Weissinger.

I agree tape the guides in place. Tape can be removed to reposition the guides if needed. You will be surprised how well a rod will cast with guidex taped in position even if the guides are not in a perfectly straight line. When everything is wrapped and aligned it will cast even better.
Norm

Did that once lost $75.00 worth of Titanium guides, note to self DO NOT TEST CAST OVER WATER! it was 150 ft from my house

I also add tape behind the guide. Sort of like a backstop for the micro guides. I leave it on once happy as a marker for guide placement and help prevent the guide moving back while wrapping the micro's.

Doug,
Then don't test cast if test casting does not work with your setup.

Rather, just use generic thread to wrap up each of the guides nice and tight on the rod. Do not put any finish on the guides.

Then, go out and test cast as much as you want. If something is not working, cut a guide or guides off the rod and rewrap the guide. It should take less than an hour to wrap the guides for casting.

Good luck

I use elastic sewing thread, available at any sewing supply store. Cut an 8" piece of elastic thread, stretch it as far as it will go, wrap it around the guide and blank, and tie it tight with a square knot. You may have to take a couple of Forhan wraps if you are using single foot guides. The elastic holds the guides stationary and the 6 or 8 turns of the thread will keep the guide from breaking loose. Touch the thread with a razor and it will literally jump off the blank.

I don't understand losing guides test casting when the line goes through the tiptop, through the guides, and onto the reel. I've had them come loose, but they are always captured. What am I missing? I also don't see what water has to do with it. Lose a guide in the yard, and it's gone.

Michael,
I don't believe that he is losing guides.
He is just unsuccessful test casting because the guides are not attached to the blank well enough to hold the guides in place when he really gives the blank a hard cast. The guides stay on the line, just not on the blank because they get ripped from the blank during hard test casting.

Be safe

Doug,
For a starting point I would suggest that you put the butt guide at 20 inches from the face of the reel and place the next guide 12 inches up the rod and go from there. Those are the locations of about 80% of the casting rods that I build.

Be safe

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doug,
> For a starting point I would suggest that you put
> the butt guide at 20 inches from the face of the
> reel and place the next guide 12 inches up the rod
> and go from there. Those are the locations of
> about 80% of the casting rods that I build.
>
> Be safe
This is too funny... I laid my guides out working from the tip back I used static load for the most part. Didn't measure the location of the butt guide until I read this message. Figured I'd throw a tape on it just to see where it fell in relation to the reel guide. Spot on 20"!!! The next guide up is 10" frame the butt guide and may or may not be in its final location.

I was wr... Wro.... Wrooooonnn... Wrrooon.... incorrect... when I said the first belly guide from the butt guide gave up first. It's the first guide from the tip, where the blank starts flexing first, is the first to let go. Then as the bend travels as to rod loads up each following guid pulls free.

I also liked the "if it isn't workin - don't use it..." I'm doing a final wrap instead of using generic thread prior to attempting to test cast again. Don't think I'll need to move a bunch of guides but if I have to - Lord knows I need the practice.

I really appreciate all the input on this "issue" I'm having.

I'm using bkbags and bktags, both #4's for this build. I am using the Forhan wrap, 2 per guide. As I was doing it I wondered if it was still needed with the kb and kt guides. Ultimately figured it couldn't hurt.

Thanks again!

I do a locking wrap on all my single ft guides, just for extra security. Because of the wide neck on the KB and KT guides it is a little more difficult to get the locking wrap gapless. Because of they way these guides are designed you probably do not need a locking wrap. It's up to you.
Norm

I put'em on it... If I go almost, two wraps away, from the ring base before I put the locking wrap it came out gapless. Any sooner that that I was getting a gap. I followed the last lockin wrap with two conventional wraps before pulling the thread back through to terminate.

Managed a few test cast w/o wrapping the butt guide. Unfortunately the were some young'uns playing on one end of my test area and car parked on the other end. Didn't feel comfortable really letting go. Did manage a few cast that hit at 240' but best with stock guides is 270' on a fairly regular basis. This is with a 1 oz. weight and no bait attached. With bait standard cast before installing new guides was ~240'.

Those are some mighty impressive casting numbers. Are you just trying to see how far you can cast? Or are you actually going to be using casts of that length in fishing?

If so, you must be surf casting? Certainly you're not going to be making that length of cast while bass fishing?

Yes, I hit those distances bass fishing w/c-rig. I'm hoping to hit 300' with bare weight and 250-260' with bait included. Primarily used as a search tool a c-rig excels at that. More distance on the cast... The more water covered.

However, after doing final guide alignment I discovered a few things. At 20" on the butt guide the line is touching the ring at the top of the ring. As might be expected I load my reel with as much line as possible which creates this condition. To eliminate this requires moving the butt guide out to 24" vs original location of 20". If I move it to that point then move the next guide in the reduction train, bkwag-6, out an additional 12" that happens to be precisely where my first belly guide is located. But that may be ok because...

I put the current set-up under a static load and the line was touching the blank between all KT tip guides - 7 of them. Starting at th first tip guide this is how it measures out from the tip. 3.25",3.625", 3.375" 3.625", 3.625", 4.750, 5.125"(first belly guide), 6.125"(second belly guide), 7.125" (third and last belly guide).The line was not dropping below the blank. I've read some of the contrasting views on this. Some say it's ok some say it's not. I'll probably end up cutting all the guides off and close the distance between each tip guide by 1" and see how that does.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2016 10:05AM by Doug Weissinger.

You don't really cast that far while fishing that Carolina rig do you? If not, and I sure don't, you've got a rod that already casts further than you can fish effectively, therefore the casting distance is a mute point. Move on to more important things like weight reduction, sensitivity, etc. You have a bunch of forces working against your presentation a lake angler will never see, and I know not one bass angler starting his Carolina rig fishing at 100 yds. from the boat.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2016 10:30AM by Spencer Phipps.

The 300' is with sinker only and what I'm shooting for - not what I have accomplished. Normally, depending on prevailing conditions, while fishing I'm hitting 200-240'. That's with a senko style bait. Put a big brush hog or similar bulky bait the distance drops significantly. I am chunking past the area I want to fish, usually. Bites typically come anywhere from 20' of splash down to the boat. As a search method it is very effective. During a tournament, once the fish have been located, I may move the boat 50-60' closer to the target zone. However... Rest assured I can, and have, effectively hook and land a fish at the end of my longest cast.

This is with my Tatula HD, my best c-rig reel to date. Longest distance with a Lew's BB2Z is 240'. Abu Revo STX 210'.

Roger, reread Barry Thomas, Sr.