Hi,

Got my base down and layered up with epoxy. I need to keep the color of my overwrap thread to match the guide underwraps (Bill, they're already on there and epoxied up...I know I could've gone without, but I like the look). My question is when applying CP, should I do it before or after removing the sacrificial thread? My guess is that you would pull the thread first and CP once the gap has been created. I guess my concern is that the CP will not dry clear enough to show the below wrap as well. This is my first tiger, so I don't want to goon it up. I'll post pics when I get it done!

Thanks,
Randy

CP should dry almost completely clear. It won't block the underlying thread even if you were to apply it after you removed the sacrificial thread. If you remember from Scott's article, you use a little heat to "set" the top thread in place so it won't move easily, so applying the CP after the sacrificial thread is removed shouldn't cause any problems.

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Hi Randy
Just tried this myself search tiger wrap or steve macloud he posted a good method a couple of weeks ago I tried it it worked for me only thing I did diff was I forgot the heat part before i pulled extra thread so I applied the 50/50 cp in large gobs with a brush and a tray under let it soak a bit removed extra with a strip of coffee filter, just lay on and let it wick up extra.I put the cp on after i removed top thread because i didnt know when to do it, before or after, thought it would be easier if sacrificial thread wasn't stuck to the other. let dry, couple of more coats looks good had no bubble issues
Robert

Thanks guys. I'll go after. And I'll definitely use heat. I do remember that from the article.

I'll search for that thread, but I've always read to not thin CP. Especially to a 50/50 ratio.

My comment on applying cp on a top wrap is the post titled "Tiger Experiment" on page 2 of the Forum List.

Jersey, Channel Islands. (U.K.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2016 01:15PM by Steve Mcleod.

Steve, I'll take a look.

Tom, right after you reminded me to use heat, I went out and wrapped it up. I then proceeded to admire my work, and apply cp (yes I'm an idiot and forgot heat). After two coats much of the affect is gone; I think a lot of the gaps went away as I laid on the cp. i guess my brush moved them as I applied. I'm gonna strip it off and start over.

If I pull the top layer off, can I clean up any cp left behind with DNA? I don't think that will mess up the epoxy on the bottom layer, will it?

For the top layer, is high or low thread tension desireable? And finally, any advice on laying multiple threads with a power wrapper which has a tensioning device designed for only one thread?

Less tension will allow you to disturb the top layer to a greater extent, which is important if you want the most striking effect.

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Tom, by disturb, are you talking about burnishing the top layer as you would the bottom, to create a random effect? Or just to try get a good even gap? I've seen a video by an Australian fella who burnished the top wrap just like the bottom. But I think he's the only one I've seen doing it that way. Most other sources I've read have advised trying to get as straight and even a wrap as possible.

The bottom is where you want the bulk of the "waviness" so the top effect will look more disturbed. I should have said it that way. Top layer thread tension is not overly important. I'd wrap it with about the same tension I use on a guide wrap. Heating the epoxy on the bottom layer as you begin wrapping the top layer helps to lock it in place when you remove the sacrificial thread. It is the equal distance between the open thread on top and waviness of the bottom that creates the moire effect.

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Thanks for clarifying. I had a great looking effect until I CPed it. I think I just closed up the gaps somehow when I CPed. I also need to figure out a better/faster way of putting the thread down. I turned most of it by hand using the base of my hand wrapper on top of the rail of the power wrapper. I just slid the whole base of the hand wrapper down the rail of my power wrapper. I did this because the hand wrapper is set up to tension two thread spool's individually. Toward the end I realized if I went somewhat slow I could use the foot pedal without creating gaps or overlaps.

You may find that the effect comes back when you apply finish. I'd at least start a small section and look at it before stripping everything off.

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[www.rodbuilding.org] This one I did has been cp'd and as you'll see it looks just like a long plain thread wrap. But the tiger is there, and soon as you hit it with the epoxy ..... Bam! your hidden tiger appears.

Jersey, Channel Islands. (U.K.)

Randy Weakley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom, by disturb, are you talking about burnishing
> the top layer as you would the bottom, to create a
> random effect? Or just to try get a good even
> gap? I've seen a video by an Australian fella who
> burnished the top wrap just like the bottom. But
> I think he's the only one I've seen doing it that
> way. Most other sources I've read have advised
> trying to get as straight and even a wrap as
> possible.

If you burnish hard on the bottom layer, by burnishing hard I mean to really distort the threads - push some really tight together to create spots, spread some open to create circles, make a wavy line with your burnishing tool in one movement in different directions. The more you disturb the threads like this then the greater the effects will be when you remove the sacrificial thread. If you want to burnish the top layer too, then for good results just disturb the threads gently in two or three places on all axis's.

Jersey, Channel Islands. (U.K.)

I did these without disturbing the top thread in any way. Just the bottom was moved around.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

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Nice! I didn't realise you did those on the cover Tom, I thought those were by Scott? lol. This was the very first one I did and I only burnished the top layer too as I misunderstood the instructions at the time. [www.rodbuilding.org]

Jersey, Channel Islands. (U.K.)

No, I did those save the blue one that Bill did.

The one you linked to still came out nice even though it wasn't to direction spec.

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Wow what a nightmare. DNA turns dry CP into a mess of booger like texture. I got most of it off by scratching it while the rod was spinning, and after it had dried back a bit. I ended up somehow digging into the epoxy with my nail. I think it heated up with the friction??? Well anyways I took a bit of 400, 800 and 1000 wet or dry to it scuffed up the whole thing. I also used it to level out some epoxy I used over a decal. I put some Permagloss over the decal as a test to see if it would seal in the scratches, and it did. So I'm going to put a new layer of epoxy on the tiger base and start the top wrap over in a few more days.

I want to go to a thread store and see if they have a slightly larger thread than Madeira to use as a sacrificial. It seems like a marginally wider gap would make things a little easier. I've read posts of people using size c from Pac Bay as a sac on an otherwise size a tiger. However, I don't have any of that and don't want to wait on an order. I'm thinking if I can find a 30 weight or so embroidery thread, it may improve the process. We'll see...

P.s. Apparently I unsubscribed myself from this thread by mistake, and therefore didn't read Tom's post about the effect coming back until after it was too late.

If you look at the photo I posted, you can see the effect that can be achieved simply by following the instructions as written. I'm not sure all the acrobatics with various sized threads and additional steps really adds anything to what's possible with the original process.

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Tom, you're right. I tried with a sacrificial D thread last night. The results were similar but more or less just "waves" in the direction of the burnishing I did on the bottom layer. Not a truly random pattern. I'll be using a same size sacrificial. Gotta fix the mess I made last night with epoxy tho...but that's another thread.