On a 5wt I was thinking size 12 stripper going down to size 1 snakes. If I want to keep the weight down to keep efficiency up, two questions: 1 - can I use lite wire guides on a 5wt; and 2 - is there an advantage to a large-loop lite wire tip? Thx.

You want to use the smallest and lightest guides that will still pass your line and any required connections. If a #1 snake will do that, do so.

Don't progress through a lot of sizes - you don't need to do that. You'd want to go something like 12 - 8 - and then all #1 snakes, or if you just need it for your eye, slip a #2 or snake in there after the 8. Again, this is assuming that #1 snakes are large enough for your line and connections.

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One of my high end moderate action 5 wt. rods has 2/0 thin wire snake guides, the other faster rod, 1/0 thin wire snake guides for what it's worth. No connection/knot problems with the lines I've run through them.

Marty,
I use Recoil light wire single foot for the upper 30% of the rod length.
In a 9 foot rod this is the top 3-4 guides depending on the guide spacing.
For a 9 foot rod I will use 9 guides and for an 8 weight or less will use #1 guides.
I then change to snakes and progressively size up to the stripper.
There is no advantage to running a large loop tip top in these lighter rods. You can always tie a smaller profile knot to pass the tip top loop.
I prefer to build the rod fast and slow the fisherman. Going the other way doesn't work as well.

Gene

Fine wire snake guides are vulnerable to accidental deformation. REC fine wire guides will spring back into shape unharmed. Because they are so springy I use forhan wraps on both legs of double-foot light REC snake guides to prevent one leg from "flexing" out from under its thread wraps from an accidental impact.

I've had no such problem using stainless thin wire guides, my rods are at least 20+ years old.

I have. I still really like those recoil snake guides for their light weight, durability, and immunity to corrosion, even in salt water.

Phil,
Maybe we have seen the same thing differently, I was reporting no problem with H & H STAINLESS thin wire guides on two 5 wt. rods I built, said nothing about Recoils, I take your word for it, I've not used them.

Marty, In answer to your question, that is the size that I use on my 5wt. I used a 12 stripper, 8 double foot ring guide then ran the rest of the length out with sz1 snakes. I have a "regular" loop top. But my last fly build I did more along the line of what Tom said. It was a 3wt and I used a sz10 stripper (offset about 15 degrees favoring the stripping hand) to a sz 2 snake then 1/0 snakes and a small tip top. I really like the Snake brand Universal guides and prefer them unless the customer has reasoning and preference for something else.

Phil, you've got my interest piqued... How do you tie a Forhan lock on a double footed guide? I think that what I do is a "modified" Forhan, but I'm sure that your technique would be handy for double foot snakes (especially on the recoils). Appreciate it.

Phil, you have me interested too... How do you tie the locking wrap on a double foot guide. Can you post a photo? Why not use single foot guides to reduce weight?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2016 05:06AM by Randy Kruger.

When a wrap is 3 or 4 turns from being finished cut the thread long, secure the completed wraps with pressure from your thumb, pass the cut thread around the guide foot, around the blank, around the guide foot, etc. before pulling the thread end under the wraps. I don't think the weight saving afforded by single foot guides noticeably improves rod performance. Do distance fly casters use single foot guides? And single foot guides on a fly rod just don't "look right" to me.

Phil, I'm following you now. You are just cutting long and applying tension. I agree with you on the single foot guides. I have a pair of 7.5 foot RX-8 4 wts that have single foot recoils that are incredible casting machines (100+ feet in capable hands...not mine 65-75 for me), but most of my other builds I use the Snake Brand universal guides. I did a short (rudimentary) experiment with the single foot recoils vs. the Snake brand universals. Same placement on the rod, same line/reel, same day 10 minutes apart and found I was gaining 10-15 feet just by using the Snake guides. Subsequent builds have had the universals and I have a small stockpile of recoil single foots for "that guy"

Jared, send those rec single foots to me..

Didn't see this until now Randy. I'll send you an email.

What is the difference in materials or shape between "Snake Brand Guides" and other snake guides? I always fiddle with guide feet before wrapping them.

Phil it's worth reading their site. Basically the underside of the feet are concave to fit the round of the blank better (less air space..less epoxy to fill the dead air space), the feet are consistently ground (excellent qc) foot length consistent and usually doesn't require prep and the guide shape is a little different (round v. teardrop shape). They have all kinds of neat little features...I'm sure most of it is marketing hype, but they work and work well.

In smaller sizes and blank radii the advantages of concave foot guides fades away, due to geometry. I just came upstairs from wrapping a spin rod with Apex guides with concave feet. I would not pay more for #6 concave foot guides on that spin rod, or small, small "s" snake guides on a fly rod.

In smaller sizes and blank radii the advantages of concave foot guides fades away, due to geometry. I just came upstairs from wrapping a spin rod with Apex guides with concave feet. I would not pay more for #6 concave foot guides on that spin rod, or small, small "s" snake guides on a fly rod.

In smaller sizes and blank radii the advantages of concave foot guides fades away, due to geometry. I just came upstairs from wrapping a spin rod with Apex guides with concave feet. I would not pay more for #6 concave foot guides on that spin rod, or small, small "s" snake guides on a fly rod.

Phil, wouldn't just the opposite be true? Something with a concave foot would actually have more surface area contacting the rod blank given the same width of guide feet? And the smaller the radii of the blank, the more important the amount of contact would be. I do see what you're saying about the increased cost of the guides, they're certainly not cheap, but the amount of time I save in prep work and the increase in distance and performance I am getting out of them, it makes the cost negligible for me. I understand that they are not for everyone, but given the right rod blank, they are at least worth considering.