"Hello. My name is Dan Scollard and I fish for trout and steelhead."
(Sits down quietly)

This build, my first, will be to target river trout and steelhead with spinners (some quite small) and spoons (1/3 - 2/3oz). I use #4 - #8 mono and I like a small reel. Current favorite is an old Mitchell 308A I've owned for over 30 years. I'm sure there are better/more modern reels... I'm also very certain this one won't fail me on a multi day trip and so it continues to go fishing with me.

IST993F is an 8'3 2pc, RX7 blank with a butt of 0.485 and a 5.0 tip. Action is listed as F, power as ML. Weight is 2.5oz.
The blank feels particularly lithe and sensitive to me and I very much want to keep the overall build and guides light.

To this end, a few questions will follow. Want to say in advance, I very much appreciate your input. I've been reading here awhile and just joined this evening. Very excited about this rod and want to get it right.

1. Would you consider PacBay Match or Minima guides as good choices for this build? Recommend others better suited?

Dan,
Good choice for the guides.
For this rod I would use a size 20 or possibly 16 match guide for the butt guide. If using the size 20 match, the I go to the size 12 sv, then 8 sv, then either size 6 or 5 runners to the tp with the F style guides.

It will be a nice light guide train that will cast very well.

I like to have the center of the butt guide essentially be near the center of the reel seat. Hence the use of the match guide for the butt guide.

The other thing that I like to do, that may not be heard from others is that if I let a bunch of line off of the reel and then, keeping moderate pressure on the line reel the line back on the reel.

If I have things set up correctly, I will find that as the spinning reel rotates, the line touches all sides of the butt guide as the line is retrieved.

If I find that as the line is retrieved, the line only rubs on the bottom of the top of the butt guide, I have the butt guide too small or too short or too close to the reel.

I have found that if I adhere to this principle, that I get a rod that has 0 to minimum line slap on the rod and no catching of the line on the reel. Also, when casting all day, the retrieval effort is minimized with the guide placement as suggested above.

Good luck and good fishing.

Be safe

I agree with Roger that the PacBay minima guides are a good choice for a light spinning rod. However, my guide layout would be different from Roger's. Since you are using mono I would opt for the size 20 M guide as the stripper, although a size 16 would also be fine. For the first three reduction guides, I would use size 20, 10 and 6 all M guides (or 16, 8, 6 M guides). For runners I use size 4 F guides (could also use size 5 or 3 F guides) and a matching tip top (size 4 ring). I like the smaller F guides because the line seems to shoot better giving long smooth casts. They are also lighter giving a crisp and responsive feel to the rod. You will need about 10-11 total guides. For the reel you are using I would place the stripper at 19" to 20" from the tip of the reel spool. I set these guides up in a very similar manner to the Fuji KR concept (see Angler Resources) as a starting point. Make sure you test cast the rod for final tweaking.The nice thing about the minima guides is that they are inexpensive (especially the chrome ones), so you can buy extra sizes or styles to find the guide train that works best for you. This type of experimenting will only help with future builds.
Norm

Thanks very much, fellas!

Roger, I will certainly try your system re reeling in line under tension to note the interaction with the butt guide. Thanks for the tip as well as for your suggestions re the build.

Norm, When you specify "M" guides may I assume you are indicating Minima guides? What, in your impression, are the advantages of Minima guides to the other Pac Bay Match guides?

Undoubtedly novice questions, my apologies. In the future I hope to have much more interesting quandaries.

Dan

No apologies needed, we rodbuilders speak using jargon that may sound like a foriegn language.
When I say "M" I mean match guide, which is generic for a high frame guide style. PacBay minima guides come in many different frame styles. Just to name two others "F" for fly guide with a very low profile, and as Roger mentioned "SV" for the standard V style spin guides, which have a shorter frame than the M guides. All minima guides have a hard chrome ring insert, instead of a ceramic ring, making them very light. PacBay also makes match (M) guides with ceramic ring inserts composed of either zirconia, or hialoy. These ceramic rings are very hard, in fact you can not scratch either of them with a metal file. The zirconia M guide comes with a titanium alloy frame making them light but expensive. The hialoy M guides are heavier than the minima guides. There is absolutely no reason why you could not use the ceramic ringed guides instead of the minima guides. The minima guides are a very !ight, high performing, and economical guides. Outside of Fuji's KL-H guides (another frame style), the PacBay M guides have the highest frame for a given ring size then all other frame styles.This is the one of reasons I like them, they allow you to use a smaller guide size (lighter) and still have the height of a larger (and heavier) guide of another style. Height is important for controlling line coming off a spinning reel, and lightness is important for giving the rod a sensitive and responsive feel. I hope this helps. If i am not clear, or you have other questions please let us know. We are all here to help.
Norm

The "M" guides have been around a long time, in single and double foot versions. They were used on Match rods, used for fishing in Europe and around the world sometimes in bank fishing tournaments they call matches. The only differences between the Pac Bay guides are the presence or lack of a ceramic guide ring, the Minimas having a stainless wear ring swaged unto the frame where the ceramic ring could be.
I own a 3 pc.,12 ft. long british match rod designed for 1 to 4 kg. line (2 to 8 lb.) that I've used as a steelhead float rod for 30+ years. It has a very limber 4 ft. tip that gets much stiffer very quickly, the butt being considerably stiffer than your IST 993. The double foot guides start with a #10 stripper going down to #4 L (lower framed spinning) runners and a #4 ring tip top. It throws a steelhead float and jig a very long way with a either my Penn 430 SS, or Shimano 2000 spinning reel. Feels and looks like a 12 ft. version of the St Croix 76MLXF blank.
We've talked on the ifish message board.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2016 01:30AM by Spencer Phipps.

Dan,
When I use the letter M to refer to guides, I take it to mean Match guides.

Here is a link to the 2016 Pac Bay catalog:

[www.fishpacbay.com]

Look at page 18 - This is the page that speaks of M guides which are the Match guide version of Pac Bay guides.

Page 14 - refers to the SV guides which are conventional height guides.

Page 27 refers to the very low single foot guides that are commonly referred to as F guides and are normally used for running guides.

Page 28 refers to the FXT tips which are small hole sized tips normally used with size 3 and 4 running guides.

Page 26 refers to the MFT small tips used with size 3 and 4 running guides.

Pages 23 and 24 refer to the PT tips which are used with larger running guides like 6-10.

Good luck