So first of all, I'd just like to ask what exactly are the benefits of going the 27x route? I've heard better feel, better casting distance, etc but do any of these claims really carry any weight? If not and you'd just suggest a regular setup, what size guides should I purchase?
I'm ordering stuff for a 7 ft mhx fast action spinning rod. Here's what I know (correct me if I'm wrong) I'll need 8 guides, plus the tip top. For less than 10 lb test line I'll probably use size 6 running guides (maybe 5 of them, 3 reducing guides) and the reel will be a Daiwa tournament ss 700 or 1300, and the diameter of the spool determines the placement of the choker. What I don't know is what size I need to get for the (3?) Reducing guides. I don't really want to buy a whole bunch of guides and fund the one that works seeing as how I only build 1 rod as a time extra guides would just go to waste. Thanks for any help you can offer.

The 27X method is one of several New Guide Concept systems. They all work exceptionally well. With 27X, you have to let the line path tell you what guide sizes you need, so if you don't want to buy extra guides you'll have to do something else. You have various options such as the MicroWave system or the online Fuji guide sizing and placement system software (GPS).

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Brennen,
For this setup I have been using the following:

size 20 - match guide
size 16 -
size 10 -
size 6 to the tip
size 6 tip top.

Be safe

Half of the diameter of the spool Face is the START for the size of the first butt guide
27 times the diameter of that spool face is where the choker goes which is the first guide from there to the tip top or running guides

If you plan to build rods it is always nice to get extra which can be used to measure the next rod
plus a 20 will work but a 16 may work better depending on which reel you get It is always good to try different sizes and see how it will cast

Bill - willierods.com

I like the Fuji KR system for light rods, it casts extremely well.
Size 16 KL-H
Size 8 KL-H
Size 5.5 KLM
Size 4. 5 KBs and KTs as runners
Matching FC or LG tip top with 4.5 ring.
Stripper at 19" " from reel spool.

Could also use PacBay minima guides as a very light alternative.
Size 16 M
Size 8 M
Size 6 M
Size 4 Fs as runners.
FM tip top with Size 4 ring
Set up the same as the KR system. Very light and casts extremely well.

Norm

I've been using the 27x method as you're looking at, with pac bay minima guides. Absolutely love it cause the guides are dirt cheap, so you don't cringe thinking about buying extra guides. It's always a good idea to buy extra guides, and extra sizes. A lot of people on the forum are fans of the minima guides. Use the search tool to do some research and you will feel more comfortable making a decision.

One thing not mentioned yet is the influence of the line you intend to use. Check out the Fuji catalog for their different setups based on line.

No pun intended, but the bottom line is that the first guide may be a lot smaller if you only plan to use braid to about 15 pound test or mono to about 6. With that line, anything will work well, so go small go light.

With all of the modern systems it is recognized that you don't need to progressively reduce ring size as you go down the rod, do the 27X then one size all the way to the tip. And the weight of the guides past the 27X reduction is very important for sensitivity, not so much for distance.

The KR guide placement system is different from the 27x system in that it moves the choke point closer to the reel. This creates a rapid choking of the line which I think improves line control, resulting in a very smooth transition to the running guides, and surprisingly long casts. I have identical test rods set up with the 27x, the new guide concept, KR concept and micro wave set ups. They all cast very well, but my favorite is the KR setup using either Fuji KR guides or PacBay minima guides as I mentioned above. This system gives a very light and crisp feeling guide train. I certainly agree with Michael concerning the role of line in influencing guide size and placement. All the spinning guide placement systems work best with braided line, if you use mono I would up the size of the stripper. In general, the heavier the line the larger the stripper guide needs to be.
Norm

On the few I've built, I've had good results skipping sizes. For example running a 25-16-10-6-6-6-6. But I agree, unless you are buying very expensive guides, just get a couple extra sizes to see.

I like the method of taking off the spool and lining up the spool's bolt(??) with the edge of a table. Then put the edge of the ring on your choker (positioned based on the 27x method) along the same edge of the table. So you have the center of the spool aligned with the choker. So now you position reducer guides so that when the feet are on the blank, the outer edge of the ring is even with the edge of the table (just like the choker). If doing that positions it too near or far from the previous guide, go up or down a size as appropriate. For the rest of he runners, I usually end up with a small enough space near the tip to just position about 4 equidistant from each other on out to the top.

I did my first rod like that building one for my daughter. I took it to the park and it test casted it. I'm pretty sure it was the farthest I've ever casted a spinning rod of that size having only used store bought rods before. It was with Pac Bay minimas with the layout listed above and a 1/2 oz weight.

Brennan,
when I started building, I just bought several sizes to experiment with 27X, NGC, KR methods. 27X is pretty simple so I did some with that using Minima guides. I recently did a couple with KR guides, using KR GPS on anglers resource page. Both work equally well for me. I didn't like lining guides up with a string or along the table edge and swapping sizes, so being and engineer and liking design tools I made a spreadsheet I can use to select my guides quick and easy. I can easily see spacing with different guide sizes. This is a good starting point mind you, and adjustment can be done from there but I haven't found the need to adjust the reduction train. Runners are always spaced with static loading.
The only measurements I need are spool diameter and vertical distance from blank to spool shaft. If you PM me the measurements of your reel I could post an example for Fuji K or Minima guides.

Sometimes I think guys try to make rod building more complicated and analytical than it needs to be. I might have just done that myself. ;)

John Shear
Chippewa Falls, WI

That is why I like the NGC system Simple Other systems complicate things

Right on John

Bill - willierods.com

Randy,
Just a point on a word.

Casted - is not a word.

The definition of cast:

[www.merriam-webster.com]

The past, present and future tense of the word cast is in fact cast.

Take care

Thanks for the tip roger; how about Bill's persistent lack of punctuation!? Ha ha ha!! You guys are awesome.

Randy
You must be a English Major ?? LOL

Bill - willierods.com

There may be a difference between how the different systems/different size strippers, fit into rod tubes. If that is important to you , check it out before deciding on a system.

My personal preference is the Fuji KR system, which has gotten pretty simple.

They casted real good for me.

Nah, strength in numbers; I was an accounting major. I hated writing. Not an accountant though. Going on 16 years in the Marines.

Lifer ha? They will take care of you

Thank you for your service

Bill - willierods.com

Heck yeah, wouldn't have it any other way!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2016 10:09PM by Randy Weakley.

[grammarist.com] :)

Randy,
I see that you are a New User of the english language that is set to add "old english" to "new english".

Thanks for the update.
I did not know of the update that you posted. Always good to learn something new.

Be safe