Thread winding is basic to rod building and I seem to have a recurring problem of threads loosening up and unraveling which does the same to my nerves. At first I Tried the book for tension same problem. Then I built a jig and used springs washers and a wing it.Same o same o.I have had some success with the guides. Just wrapping is the main problem. I've adjusted tension a number of ways still have threads unravel often with just brushing one end or other .I know nylon stretches alot. It's beginning to be wear in me

When wrapping, do you find yourself stopping or backing up much? Obviously this removes tension from the wrap. The only other thing I can think of is that you're not using enough tension to begin with.

After wrapping a guide, it should be snug enough that while it will move with some firm sideways pressure, it's doesn't easily slip or slide.

.............

Robert,
Increase the tension on the thread until you can NOT move the guide at all. Now, you know how much tension is required for that to happen.

Now, just decrease the tension just a bit, so that you can just BARELY move the guide.

Also, how many thread to you use to slip the tag end of the thread under? I like to use about a dozen threads so that there is plenty of thread to hold the tag end secure.

p.s.
I use a very simple sewing machine style thread tension device. Hundreds of rods later, all of the guide wraps are still secure. I do not run metallic thread through this tension device, but it works just fine with any of the non metallic thread.
Of course, it should work since millions of items are sewed up every day - by using sewing machines that use an identically designed thread tension device.

Be safe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2016 10:39PM by roger wilson.

look at MUD HOLE hand wrappers you will see a vertical spring steel rod , it should give you some ideas I use an old hack saw blade with an
old tip top on the top ,,,,, spring steel rod from RC HOBBY store use 3/64 or 1/16 inch works thinner the better I think. after a couple of guides you will know what works for you don't put the steel rod to close works best if it is back a foot from the wrap rod the farther back from the wrap rod the more you will be able to back up.when wrapping .

William Sidney
AK



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2016 11:15PM by Bill Sidney.

Robert,

What exactly do you mean by "threads loosening up and unraveling". Does this happen after the wrap is finished or while you are wrapping?

Robert, I'm still pretty new to rod building and I had the same problem when I first started wrapping. Like you said, it can be extremely frustrating. Some of the things that helped me are things that have already been mentioned.

Something I struggled with at first is how tight I should have the thread tension. I'd read more than a few past threads on this site concerning thread tension, and all of them said you should be able to move the guide, but the problem was discerning how easily should I be able to move it?

It took me a while to realize that you need it on there pretty snug. If you can move the foot of the guide parallel with the blank without needing to push it from the side with your thumbnail, then chances are you have your wraps too loose. As Tom said, firm pressure.

Also, what Roger said in questioning how many rotations of thread you're tucking your tag ends under. I'm with him in that I use 10 to 12 wraps to tuck my tag end under. If I'm doing a trim band with metallic thread, I'll tuck its tag end under about 5 wraps as I find metallic threads are just to "grabby" to pull them under many more wraps than that.

Also, I'd imagine that you find yourself having the problem with wraps coming loose when you're packing them down hill, towards the tip of the rod, versus towards the butt? That also has to do with your thread tension, but I've also found for me personally, is that it has to do with how fast I'm trying to do the wrap. Like I said earlier, I'm still pretty new to rod building and knowing that I have problems when packing wraps down hill, I make sure I take a little more time doing the wrap so I won't have as much packing to do.

Taking a little extra time on the initial wrap has the potential of saving you the time it would take to redo the wrap, so for me, it's a win/win situation.

You've come to the right place to get help with problems you may run into. These folks know their stuff, and have been a great help to me in the little over 1 year that I have been a member. I'm still in the process of learning, but without the willingness of this site's membership to help, I'd probably still be buying factory rods.

And once you've built your own rods, and experienced how much better a rod can be, chances are you'll never buy another factory rod again.


I love this place !!!

I enjoyed reading your post . I read with great interest the posts as well. I recognized a number of things I am doing and work on those today as I am working on build #3. I thought I had enough tension because when I would try to move a guide it stay put very little in the way of movement. Also Tom K asked if I backed the thread up and I do that and also tucking the tag ends under enough wraps. I was only wrapping the end under 6 or so wraps combine that with backing up the thread to make an adjustment is a no no. I'll be rereading these posts until it becomes a habit.

Thank you for your frustration relieving post. I do exactly as you described. I'll work on it. I've only built a couple of rods so far and thoroughly enjoyed the process. My wife is retiring March 1 and we will be on our way to visit our out of state kids.... my rod bldg stuff is going with me as I'll have time to work on build #3. Thanks again.

I think I have discovered why threads unravel... I back up to straighten up a thread or two and when I do tension gets released and the tag end is not under enough wraps. I would just brush the ends of a wrap and the threads would loosen and then I would try pack the threads back into place and the threads only got looser. Thank you for your post.

Make sure you don't pull the thread through next to the guide foot, because the guide foot lifts the threads off the blank a tad bit there so the threads can apply as much pressure

Robert,
X10 on your comment about backing up and having the threads come loose.

I minimize that issue, because I use a power wrapper. The power wrapper is such that when I stop wrapping the rod is locked in position. So, if I am 1/2 way through a wrap and get a phone call, I just stop wrapping and answer the phone.

The thread does not move and the wrapper does not move.

If I make a mistake, I put the wrapper in reverse by flipping a switch, grab the thread and back up the wrapper to clear the mistake. Then, I reposition the thread in my tension device - while not letting any slack develop in the thread, flip the switch to the forward position and go back to wrapping.

Since I don't use any sort of spring wire for the thread tension, the thread tension is always exactly the same since it is always pulling through the tension device to maintain the same thread tension.

I only built one rod wrapping by hand. After that experience, I said - there has to be a better way Thus began my saga of building different power wrappers until I ended up with the wrapper that I have today that works well for me.

Good luck

Michael, that's an excellent point, and a mistake that cost me a couple of re wraps until I finally figured it out.

Glad you brought it up as I am sure it will help Robert if he ever runs into a problem in that area in the future, if he isn't already having it now.

I know I had plenty of problems wrapping when I first started. In fact I'm sure I still do, as I don't do that many wraps.

Not to scare you Robert, but wait until you wrap your first #4.5 or smaller single foot guide. They're a hoot !!! lol But really, they're kind of tough until you get the right way of holding them on the blank. They wrap quickly because of their size, and wrapping over the feet is more fluid because their feet dont' have the profile of some of the larger double and single foot guides. And the performance gain you get from using them (if they fit your situation) is well worth the added headache they can cause at first.

Using your thumbnail to pack thread as you wrap will also help. Lynn

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robert,
> Increase the tension on the thread until you can
> NOT move the guide at all. Now, you know how much
> tension is required for that to happen.
>
> Now, just decrease the tension just a bit, so that
> you can just BARELY move the guide.
>
> Also, how many thread to you use to slip the tag
> end of the thread under? I like to use about a
> dozen threads so that there is plenty of thread to
> hold the tag end secure.
>
> p.s.
> I use a very simple sewing machine style thread
> tension device. Hundreds of rods later, all of
> the guide wraps are still secure. I do not run
> metallic thread through this tension device, but
> it works just fine with any of the non metallic
> thread.
> Of course, it should work since millions of items
> are sewed up every day - by using sewing machines
> that use an identically designed thread tension
> device.
>
> Be safe

--------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Roger
I am using metallic thread on my first rod build and want to get it right. Why do you not put your metallic thread through a tensioner?

Many thanks
John

Metallic thread tends to hang up and come apart when it is subjected to the pressure of tension disks.

For the folks who do long wraps with metallic thread, they generally use a tension device that puts tension on the thread bobbin rather than the thread itself.

Since I don't do long wraps with metallic thread, I prefer to use the simple tension disks which stay constant no matter the amount of thread left on the spool or the size of the spool itself.

I use metallic thread for trim wraps but these are short pieces and I hold the tension in the thread by hand.

Be safe