Well, I think my first build will fish. Not the prettiest in the world but good enough to give me hope. The flaws in my wrapping were definitely magnified by the finish. I also got a little overzealous with the torch trying to get rid of air bubbles. The epoxy is solid but there are some spots where I burned it. All of this has brought up a couple of questions...I used size d thread, would size a or b lay down more smoothly? I'm thinking size b since my eyes are far older than the rest of me!! Also, what are everyone's thoughts on using a heat gun to remove air bubbles instead of flame? I will study up on attaching pictures and post some when the final coat is dry.
Thanks for any advice y'all can offer.

Bet bet is not to create bubbles in the first place, then you don't need heat. Eliminating or reducing bubbles can be achieved by mixing your finish very slowly and not brushing it around on the wrap.

This may be helpful to you: [www.youtube.com]

...............

Sam,

Since you said that your eyes are not quite as sharp as they used to be, buy yourself a head band mounted magnifier.

Magnification makes a world of difference in wrapping rods. Also, if you don't have very bright light right on the guide that you are wrapping, get a bright light that can shine right on your wrapping.

I believe that the general rule of thumb for lightning is that lighting for very close up detail work needs to be 12Xs brighter than general office illumination.

[www.engineeringtoolbox.com]

Some examples of high intensity lights that - depending on the model - work very very well for detail task lighting for rod wrapping.

[www.google.com]

An example of an inexpensive head band mounted magnifier:

[www.amazon.com]

By the way, for finish application and low heat - if any is needed - I use an industrial heat gun. Easy to use and easier to control the heat than an open flame.

Be safe

Great video Tom. Thanks for posting that. I'm sure I mixed to fast. I may try one of those finish mixers. Still happy with my first build, can't do anything but get better.

Sam
If this is the rod you were talking about building the other day. I would suggest never using size D thread on bass rods. Personally use size A. Unless using silk, in which cases I will go down to size 000

I use a heat gun and have no issues. Don't focus the heat on any one area, use on low held 6-8 inches from blank and always keep moving. I would suggest as another has to get a type of magnifier, either head band style or table top with an arm mounted magnifier. If I use one I prefer the latter. Size A thread is all I use unless I am building something beefy. I think A thread wraps better, looks nicer, lays down nicer, and will produce a lighter rod and use less epoxy. D thread wraps on inshore or bass type rods look bulky in my opinion.

Sam

Its ok to use flame to smooth out the finish or release bubbles, Like anything else once you master the technique it works fine.

Steve

I am curious to know why size D thread should not be used on bass rods.



Thanks

John

If you are using a high build try light It flows better and releases bubbles nicer It also stays wet longer If your place is hot cool it down helps the finish stay wet and flow and release bubbles

Bill - willierods.com

D is a bit more bulky and in some cases on lighter rods you will be able to feel the slightly slower rod speed that results from its use. Granted, it's a bit easier to use so I often advise builders to use it, if they have to, on the lower half of the rod but stick with A from the mid area forward to the tip. Obviously, you need a good color dye match from spool to spool for the best appearance.

..................

A works well if the guides are PREPPED WELL The thread just walks right up the feet but the feet need a nice taper

Bill - willierods.com

Thanks for all of the tips. I used d thread because that is what came with my kit from Mudhole. I have ordered a thread so I should be able to tighten up the wraps on the next one. I also got a magnifying visor at Horbor Freight so that should help. Again, thanks for the great tips.

never said D thread " should not be used on bass rods."

Said I " Personally use size A. Unless using silk, in which cases I will go down to size 000"
I don't use D because is is unnecessary
For same reasons Mr. Kirkman stated.

And if you are using smaller or Micro guides the thinner thread does a better job of holding in them in place. And the 000 silk does a better job then size A.

Several years back Bill Stevens paid to have pull out tests done with different size threads and the thinner threads displayed higher pull out rating then the thicker threads.

One exception that I have found has been with size A matalic twist/silk threads, they for some reason have a higher fail rate the standard size A or pure silk threads



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2016 07:32PM by Steve Gardner.

Concerning size A vs D tread, 1 oz of A contains 950 yds of thread, and 1 oz of D contains 450 yds. Thus the weight of A for a given straight length is approximately half that of D. The diameter of A is .006 and the diameter of D is .010" . Thus to wrap a given length on a rod you will use approximately half the amount of D tread vs A. So in my book it is close to being a wash concerning weight differences between these two sizes; and the difference would be negligible compared to the overall weight of the rest of the rod and its components. However Size A gives a more painted on appearance than D, but D is easier to wrap. So in my opinion use the size tread that you are comfortable using. I do not think there is that much of a difference between the overall appearance or weight of wraps done with A or D tread. I am sure that some will not agree, but the numbers do not lie. Hope this helps.
Norm

Don't worry about it All our First Rods were not as good until we all made several more and learned how
You will get better as you build

Bill - willierods.com

Steve

I am sorry I may have misinterpreted the statement "I would suggest never using size D thread on bass rods." After reading yours and other posts I can see where size D thread would not be the best choice.


Regards

John

JUST A TIDBIT Head band Magnifier with light ,you can get a fairly good one from Amazon.com an if you are PRIME no cost to ship
an it will be less than $10.00 to your front door

William Sidney
AK

My first foray in to rod building was simply replacing the guides on three of my factory rods. I used some of those cheap 10 for $6 or what ever it was brushes you get from Mud Hole. But I didn't brush the finish on to the wrap, I simply loaded the brush with finish and let the turning rod pull the finish from the bristles.

The wraps on those three rods were bubble free and really very nice, but they were heavy with finish. They looked like the wraps on many mid to lower priced factory rods. I wanted wraps that were thinner in depth, and therefore lighter. So I figured if I bought a really nice artists brush and painted a light coat on the threads, followed later by another light coat of finish, that I would have the type of wrap I've seen pictured in so many photos in the photo section of this web site.

But that is not what I got. What I got was nice thin in depth wraps that were filled with bubbles. At first I thought my problem stemmed from my slow speed of applying finish. My initial rod dryer, which is what I have the rod in when I apply finish, turned at a very slow 6 RPM. A good speed for drying finish, but agonizingly slow for applying it. I thought that the finish was starting to set up, and was too thick to release the bubbles. So I applied heat. Heat helped some, but didn't eliminate the problem.

Thinking it was the speed I was turning the rod slowing me down, I upgraded the motor on my rod dryer to an 18 RPM motor. I still used the same method of applying the finish, basically painting it on the wraps with the brush. The only problem the faster turning motor helped alleviate was wavy finish lines at the edge of the wraps. The bubbles persisted despite my applying low amounts of heat by simply blowing on the wraps.

As a result of replies to people having trouble with bubbles in their finish, more specifically the replies made by Tom Kirkman, I finally woke up and realized my problem wasn't bubbles in the finish prior to applying it. My problem stemmed from painting the finish on. I was introducing bubbles by trying to paint the finish on. When I went back to the procedure I used on those first rods I replaced the guides on, my bubbles disappeared.

It took me a few tries to get the right amount of finish on the brush to get a nice light first coat of finish, but my wraps have been bubble free since returning to the method of letting the turning rod pull the finish from the thread. No need for heat, and no bubbles in my finish.

I've only built 5 rods thus far, but I've done quite a few practice wraps. As of now my only problem is the occasional nub caused by a fuzzy that I didn't see prior to applying finish. I've got nice bright lighting now, and am ready to put it to good use on my next build.

I'm certainly not saying that people who use heat are wrong in their application of it. Far from it. We all have our ways of doing things, and as long as the result is beautiful wraps, whose to say that any of us are wrong. I just don't find the need for heat any more because I followed Tom's simple advice.

Don't paint the finish on your wraps. Let it flow on to your wraps.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2016 07:55AM by David Baylor.

Welcome to the world of rod building, you come to the right place to fine out any thing you need to know about rod build. It is a great hobby. I hope you enjoy

I am also still contemplating which size thread to use. Dale Clemens' general advice is to use size A for freshwater and D for saltwater and E for those really heavy rods. Mind, I've used size A for light saltwater rods and they've not given any problems. As noted above, size A gives you a finish which looks painted and doesn't look as though there's anything holding the guides in place if you've used a color close to that of the blank. That being said using size D makes the job go quicker but if you've the time then perhaps size A is all you need. Looks like I've made the decision for myself too.