If I'm going to use the smallest size Shimano - I believe it is a 500 or 750 - can I start with a KL-H guide smaller than a 16? Like a 12 or 10, then 5.5 and size 4 running guides?

If you're running small braid, test cast with a 12. I'd be willing to bet it would work well.

Jeremy

Marty,

I use a match frame 16, match frame 8, fly 5 and 3s to the tip on that rod with a size 10 Quantum, comparable to a 100 Shimano. Depending on the model, the smallest Shimanos are generally 500 or 1000, though there may be a 750 out there somewhere. If it's a 500, you should be able to get by with a tall 12mm guide, but with the 1000, I'd stick to the tall frame 16.

That is a fantastic blank, by the way!

Joe

If you decide to use a stiffer line - like a 25 lb mono, I would then make the first guide a size 20 match guide. For the limper lines, the size 16 match will work fine.

Be safe

If you are planning on using mono greater than 8# test I would not use a size 12 stripper, rather go to a 16 or even a 20. A size 12 stripper will be OK with 6-10 # braid, but a size 16 will work better. I like a size 16 stripper with braid up to 15 # and a size 20 stripper with 20 # braid and up. My feelings on this is that the heavier (larger diameter) the line the larger the stripper. I do not think a size 12 stripper will give you any functional advantages over a larger stripper. The precieved weight savings is not that much since the stripper is in the section of the blank where extra weight is not so important and hence has little effect on casting or feel. Hope this helps
Norm

I have to say that I am enjoying learning about guide sizes for spinning rods, as they are still pretty much a mystery to me. But I will comment on some of the line sizes that are being mentioned.

On that small of a reel, 25# mono would be out of the question.

Anything higher than 8# test in even the most limp nylon mono filament line would also be pushing it for that size reel. The spool just doesn't have the diameter to handle a line of that diameter. . You're talking 4# mono, or 10# to possibly 15# braid at best. You'll need an extremely limp line for that small of a reel.

Fluorocarbon is definitely out of the question.

Since that is a travel blank I assume you will put it into a rod tube. Make sure you understand the final height of the guide and how it will fit your tube. I would be inclined to compromise on height in favor of portability if I had to make a choice. I'm sure you're thinking of pretty light line, so guide setup more than likely will not be critical to performance.

If you are using braid a 12 would be fine. I would probably go with a 10.

Hands down my Go To Rod this year had a size 12 stripper straight to 04 runners paired with a 2500 series reel w/20lb braid. Sight fishing with accuracy up to 60yds and plenty strong/durable enough to handle hundreds of Reds up to 20lbs.






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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2016 08:44AM by Mike Pedersen.

Good to see many KL-H fans paying proper attention to the line type and characteristics as part of the equation. The stiffer the line (even heavier braid) the more difficult it is to choke down through a small stripper. That's not a "rule" it's something you actually see right away when you test cast. With a 12 stripper you're pushing the limit on "Rapid Choke" and as you approach that limit it will become more and more about the line and less about the spool size, distance placed etc. You may be painting yourself into a corner where the 12 works great with a certain pound test line but performance falls apart with any other line (even stiffer line of the same pound test). The 16 will build a lot of flexibility back into the reduction train and allow the use of a wider range of line types and pound tests. Tape and test both and report back.

Mike: please share the layout for size 12/10 strippers. I'm curious.

Thanks Jim. I was thinking about the 12 to make the rod pack into a smaller tube, but the 16 is probably a safer bet. Will probably always use it with 4lb mono or 10lb (or less) braid. I was wondering if I might get away with 12-5.5-4s instead of 16-8-5.5-4s.

Marty,
Remember, rod building is not like bank robbing.

You use the words - "get away with".

If you have performance issues with a certain size guide train, the only person that you are robbing is yourself or your client if you are building it for someone else.

There is very little upside to push the envelope by going smaller in guides, and potentially a lot to lose if the guide train does not work out.

As the saying goes - tape the guides in place for each set of guides and do a couple hundred casts with various lines to see what, if any penalties that you pay by selecting one guide train compared to the other guide train.

Good luck

I agree with Roger. Tape the guides on your rod and go cast it to see how it performs in your hands. Set up with the size 12 stripper train and then the size 16 stripper train. Being a retired scientist I am a big proponent for experimenting to see how things work. You just need an extra guide or two but the cost is rather minimal compared to the information that you will gain. Also it never hurts to have extra guides on hand.
Norm

Jim,

On the rod in the pic:Fuji KLSG-12H stripper 23.5" from reel face then(7) ALPS PMK-04's. From Stripper 10",7",6",5",4,4,4,4. It started as nothing more than an experiment and ended up being the rod I used straight through 8 days of prefishing and day one of the IFA Championship (day two blew 30kts so it was spinnerbaits all day).

Just tried your GPS for the first time. Right in line with the way I think. I predominantly use 2500 series reels so I go down one size in the stripper and only two trans guides but the same "Concept". Also, completely agree that you get to the point of diminishing returns past a size 12.

been doing it like this for a while. Start ~23" from spool face:
3000 = 20,10,5...
2500 =16,8,4...
2000 =12,6,3...

you can see pics in my gallery pics from 2008 set up like this.




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Riley Rods-Hard Core Grips to Go!-----Carbon Fiber - Composite Grip Store-----Capt Mike's Blog-----No Excuses Fishing Charters