Just started playing with titanium guides. Bending some to check strength, they don't seem as strong or rigid as stainless, is this correct?

Thanks - Marc

Keep it simple - that's all I can handle!

I've used many and I don't have that impression. Never tried bending them but sometimes I witnessed some really rough handling and they were never damaged in any way. I must clarify that I've only used Fuji ones.

I have found the Fuji single leg guides to bend quite easily, to the point that one snapped. But Donnie with Anglers Resource replaced it with out hesitation.
Although I really like those guides, for that reason. I had stopped using them a few years back

Yes - size for size - Ti is softer than SS.
But they do not discolor in salt water and I use nothing else for stripping guides. Also use only Fuji.
Herb

That's what I saw Steve, with a single foot spinning guide. It bent pretty easy, and they don't last much for bending back, snapping off easier - where a stainless one can be bent back.

Thanks - Marc

Keep it simple - that's all I can handle!

Nearly all guides are very much overbuilt for the job they have to do. Strength, or resistance to bending/flexing, of the guide frame is rarely an issue.

The Titanium framed guides will be a bit more pliable, which can often be a plus.

..................

I had to bend a set of Fuji single foot titanium spin guides once and found them tough as nails. VERY hard to bend. Quite a while ago. Either they were not titaniums (bought on @#$%&) or Fuji has changed their formulation. On the other hand, AmTac's single foot spin titaniums are very easily bent and broken.

"Titanium guides" include at least two quite different products: titanium plated guides and titanium alloy guides. I don't know of any solid titanium guides, but they may exist. Solid nickel-titanium alloy guides, like Recoil NiTi guides, are more flexible than similar diameter stainless steel guides. A NiTi guide will not break or corrode, ever. The strength and durability of a titanium plated guide depends upon the type of metal that is plated, not the microns-thick titanium plate.

Marc,

I have never really tried bending them. The only titanium guides that have ever come back to me for replacement has been as a result of being stepped on. Where TI really shines is in how light they are...I love them and recommend them to all of my customers if they can afford them. I simple love Fuji's new TI/Torzite guides. IMHO, the best guides available, but then I build mostly bass rods where reduced weight is critical.

Don Campbell
don@sensorfishingrods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2015 10:19AM by Donald R Campbell.

Marc,

I have never really tried bending them. The only titanium guides that have ever come back to me for replacement has been as a result of being stepped on. Where TI really shines is in how light they are...I love them and recommend them to all of my customers if they can afford them. I simple love Fuji's new TI/Torzite guides. IMHO, the best guides available, but then I build mostly bass rods where reduced weight is critical.

Don Campbell
don@sensorfishingrods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2015 10:19AM by Donald R Campbell.

Fuji uses a Titanium alloy and they won't even tell us what's in it. It's very strong and "springy". Equally as important and often overlooked is the frame leg cross section. In titanium only, Fuji has engineered a "U-channel" frame leg that is far stronger than a flat titanium frame leg would be. It functions like a U-channel steel beam, lending added strength to the entire frame. It is exclusive to Fuji Titanium and the difficulty in forming it accounts for much of the price. I study a lot of guides, Fuji Titanium is a work of art.

I have flattened the leg/foot of many Fuji Ti guides (TYSG and TATSG) and reformed them to get the height desired for spinning setups. Several of them were even bent several times without fatiguing or breaking. While this practice is not for the faint-of-heart (Ha), the end justifies the means.

In regards to fragility, I typically use single foot guides (TLSG3.5) for tip-tops and being as they’re particularly prone to damage (tip bumping), I’ve had to re-straighten in a few cases. FWIW, the few Alconites I’ve used for tip-tops don’t seem to be as strong as the Ti or stainless (SiCs).

I've played with solid Ti (solid Ti alloy and what's called commercially pure Ti, not PVD plated SS) guides quite a bit. My empirical experience would suggest that they are indeed a bit softer (depending on the alloy) but also much lighter than steel, and lets not forget corrosion proof 100%. I have not seen that they break easier. My past tests have indicated that they work harden about like SS304 which is pretty good. I've personally not yet seen a solid Ti guide fail when used for it's intended purpose/line class suggestion. They're all build with, and I tend to under build for an intended application just for R&D/sport.

-The Batson TEAM
BatsonEnterprises.com

300 series stainless steel has an ultimate tensile strength of 860. Pure (not alloyed) Titanium has an ultimate tensile strength of 1510. No doubt pure titanium is 90% stronger and 45% lighter than steel. Vapor-deposited titanium over pot metal guides has an ultimate tensile strength in the 200 range. Marketers have bamboozled lo-info consumers with fast and loose use of the word "titanium", equating pure titanium, titanium alloy, and ?metal coated a couple of atoms thick with some sort of titanium. Let the buyer beware.

300 series stainless steel has an ultimate tensile strength of 860. Pure (not alloyed) Titanium has an ultimate tensile strength of 1510. No doubt pure titanium is 90% stronger and 45% lighter than steel. Vapor-deposited titanium over pot metal guides has an ultimate tensile strength in the 200 range. Marketers have bamboozled lo-info consumers with fast and loose use of the word "titanium", equating pure titanium, titanium alloy, and ?metal coated a couple of atoms thick with some sort of titanium. Let the buyer beware.

Phil, if you know of a guide out there that has a PVD applied over pot metal, by all means call them out. I've personally never seen one. PVD does provide benefits such as, increased wear resistance via a superficial layer of increased hardness (think TiCN or TiN tipped drill bits), improved resistance to corrosion, and cosmetic appeal. On our steel frames we apply PVD over SS304 or SS316 steel only and do our best not to confuse customers about the material makeup of our guide frames.
Batson even went to the trouble of placing our solid Ti frames and our steel frames from the same series on separate catalog pages to help illustrate the difference in actual frame material. I use the term "solid Ti" to describe either commercially pure Ti or Ti alloy frame materials in an effort to differentiate between them and steel. believe you may be referring to certain production rods on the market that advertise Ti guide frames when the rods they are selling clearly have steel guides with PVD or DLC applied, and not actual solid Ti or Ti alloy frames. I have seen this before and would agree that this is misleading, at best.

-The Batson TEAM
BatsonEnterprises.com

If there is a "solid pure titanium" guide out there, I will be surprised. But fill me in if I'm wrong. Let's not consider for this post any plated guides. I think that all the guides that we consider "titanium guides" are all an alloy, and the power of the alloying process is clearly shown by the difference between the REC guides that are so deformable and snap right back and the more rigid titanium alloy guides. Considering just the "normal" titanium guides, not the REC's, there is a tremendous difference in rigidity, yield strength, the ability to maintain strength after plastic deformation, and appearance of the finish. I have my experience and most of you have yours. And debating it further will most likely change no minds. I'll keep using my favorites, and now and then try something from a different source. And I expect you will do the same.

I happened to be in my rod storage yesterday and flexed a Fuji KT 16mm titanium guide, and I have no doubt that its yield strength is sufficient and significantly higher than the Amtak Y guides. That type of guide, being so tall over the rod, would be most likely to be bent of the many other guide designs.