I have a basic question that I can't seem to get a good answer to. I presume it is a matter of opinion, so I'll ask for opinions. Supposedly the proper way to cast a casting rod is at a 90 degree angle to the typical guide placement so that the spool spindle will be straight up and down for less friction and a longer cast. But if you do that, shouldn't the spine be oriented 90 degrees from the guides for casting? And then if they are and you are fighting a fish won't you be fighting against your rod because the spine is 90 degrees to the guides? Do you build the rod for casting or fighting?

Thanks for the help. I'm honored to have all these experienced folks to ask questions of.

Sid

Go up to the red and check out the SEARCH put in spine or guides on spine
No one builds or worries about spine anymore Just build on the streaghtist axes
With guides on top of a blank you will get twist cause the guides want to go to the 180 which is normal
Take you casting rod with guides on top of the blank put line on and tie to a good weight Put pressor on the rod -- and then turn it over so the guides are at the 180 or streaght down Notice the differense

Bill - willierods.com

Bill, what you write is exactly why I'm building my next casting rod with a spiral wrap.... but from what you are saying I should ignore the spine and build so the casting position is on the straightest axis? I'm not sure I understand how to determine that..... maybe I'm not looking closely enough at the blanks when they arrive. No matter how you hold it gravity is going to affect which axis is the straightest, isn't it?

OK, I did a search and found this "just sight down the rod and align the reel and guides with the straightest portion of the blank. Many blanks will have a slight hook or bend somewhere in the blank which is perfectly acceptable. Just align the guides on the same axis as this hook or bend.
By the way, due to any slight hook or bend, it is quite often that the spine of the blank will also line up with the straightest axis as well. The original thought about spining a blank was that if guides were aligned in a direction different from the spine of the rod, that this misdirection would cause a cast to be errant in direction. However, that theory seems to be largely unfounded." posted by Roger Wilson. Thing is, I have a commercial rod (Ugly Stick) that always casts off a bit to the right, and I thought it was because of the location of the spine....????? I'm going to have to look more closely at that rod when I get back home from vacation and study it to figure out if that is the reason it is always a little off to the right..... I have to admit I've just made the assumption that was the reason. Thanks for the help.

I like to turn the blank on the rollers of my wrapper I put some thing in front of the section and watch it If it stays streight and has no Circulal action it will make no differense If it has or if the tip goes in a circule I put the High spot UP and mark that as top or O With guides on top they go there
Most are building in the spiral fashion Works like a spinning rod yet is a casting rod Easier to fish and you do not fight the rod

If you want to read some past posts on spine check this out

[rodbuilding.org]

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2015 07:03PM by bill boettcher.

Thanks, Bill!

I just hope it helps

Bill - willierods.com

The spine isn't really worth worrying about. And when you fight a fish, you rarely do it all on the same axis. You want to "fight against your rod." That's the whole point. Rods are made to resist bending.

Now if you're talking about rod "twist, spine orientation has nothing to do with that. The guides will attempt to twist the rod, no matter what you do with spine, unless you build the rod in spiral fashion with the guides along the bottom. Then the load (from the water) will tend to hold the rod upright.

Generally with modern graphite blanks, the straightest axis will overcome any effect gravity has on its mass. Sight down it and go from them.

....................

Sid,
If you have a flat floor, just lay the blank on the floor and slowly roll it. If there is a bend or a crook in the rod it will immediately show itself.

Mark the side of the crook, and wrap the guides either favoring the crook, or on the opposite side of the crook.

Good luck

I use a method of finding the straightest axis that I read in a past thread on this site, and it works great.

Put the blank in your hand wrapper or power wrapper and position the wrapper so you can place the tip of the blank close to a vertical surface, Tape a piece of regular notebook paper or graph paper to the vertical surface, so that one of the horizontal lines on the paper aligns with the tip of the blank. Now rotate the blank by hand and watch the tip. You'll be able to spot any curve in the blank with ease.

When the blank's tip reaches its highest point, any curve in the blank will be facing up. Mark the top of the blank along its center line with a china marker. If you're building a spinning rod you'll install the guides on the side of the blank opposite of the mark you placed on the blank. If you're building a casting rod with the guides on top of the blank, you'll install them on the side of the blank that you placed the mark on.

The reason for installing the guides on either the opposite or the same side of the blank as the mark, is because the weight of the guides will work to counteract the curve in the blank, and tends to straighten the blank.

Thanks, Roger and David. I love this place!

Works just rolling them on a counter top, table, or the floor if you don't have the fancy stuff, tip will get closer of further from the surface on the vertical, will swing right, or left of vertical for horizontal.

Sid Lehr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a commercial rod
> (Ugly Stick) that always casts off a bit to the
> right, and I thought it was because of the
> location of the spine....????? I'm going to have
> to look more closely at that rod when I get back
> home from vacation and study it to figure out if
> that is the reason it is always a little off to
> the right..... I have to admit I've just made the
> assumption that was the reason. Thanks for the
> help.

The Ugly Stick may be fine. That is assuming it is a graphite/fiberglass composite and your other rods are graphite.
For a given size weight and power, your Ugly Stick will load deeper than most graphite rods. This means the sinker will not be in the same position as when using a stiffer graphite rod when you release. (It will lag). Also with fiberglass, the tip's response will be slower.

The outcomes of casting with consistent timing and a horizontal component to your swing:
Heavier sinker - cast goes farther right
Harder cast - cast goes farther right
Softer rod - cast goes farther right (as compared to stiffer rod)

Outcomes for the vertical component are similar:
Heavier sinker - cast goes higher
Harder cast - cast goes higher

And finally, both horizontal and vertical components combined:
Lighter sinker - cast goes low and left
Heavier sinker - cast goes high and right

After a few casts, your timing should adjust to different rod and sinker combinations.

Don

Don Becker

No, it's you. The spine can't cause a cast to go left or right. It would have to cause the tip to move in a different direction than what you're moving it in, which it can't do.

...............

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, it's you. The spine can't cause a cast to go
> left or right. It would have to cause the tip to
> move in a different direction than what you're
> moving it in, which it can't do.
>
> ...............

Tom, I guess I need some help understanding here... When the planes of the spine movement and the direction of the cast are not identical, won't the spine have a minor influence in the direction of the cast? If I'm moving in a straight motion (and therefore, so is the rod), won't the tendency of the rod be to flex just a little bit off that line (because that is not the plane of the spine's preferred movement) and cause the final direction of the lure to be off just a little bit? I'm talking only a few degrees right or left - not major - but when you want to get a lure in an exact spot and the rod is always off a little to the right (none of my others do this), wouldn't it be the spine of the rod that changes just a little away from the casting plane when it is not lined up directly with the plane of the cast? Please help me to understand. If you are flexing a rod in a plane, but the preferred plane for that rod is a little off the axis of the spine (which is not lined up in the plane of the cast), wouldn't that alter the direction of the cast by the difference between the plane of the cast and the plane in which the rod flexes? What am I not understanding here? I thought there were two reasons to spine a rod 1) To find the preferred plane in which the rod would like to cast and 2) to line these planes up 180 degrees from one-another so as to minimize the torgue of the rod as one is fighting a fish; so that there is no torque on the rod when fighting a fish....




thanks for the help.
Sid