Plan on doing a few fly rod builds this winter and am doing research on the required tools. On the cork turning, I'm seeing two methods

1. Make handle off of blank, set up rings on a 1/4 threaded rod or plain steel rod, clamp together, and when dry you can throw the rod into the drill, drill into a vise, and sand away. Probably the easiest method. Have seen some say that you shouldnt use the rod as a mandrel though, what is the most cost effective way to have an appropriate mandrel?

Cons: Once grip is removed from rod, it needs to be reamed to be fitted to the blank. Due to the nature of fitting a completely assembled grip versus individual rings, there will be less of a true fit and thus requiring more epoxy

Pros: Don't have to worry about damaging blank in a drill or lathe setup, if you mess up the cork, it's not fixed to the blank.


2. Glue rings onto the blank, attach butt of the blank to some kind of lathe or drill, sand on blank

Cons: can damage the blank at the butt where it is being attached to whatever is turning it. You have one chance to get the cork sanding right.

Pros: Each cork ring has a truer fit to the blank. Removes the step of removing the grip from the original rod used, reaming, and then regluing to the blank.


People who turn on the blank, how are you attaching the blank to whatever is turning it? While I am willing to buy a wood lathe, I don't think it is neccesary for what I'm looking to do at the moment, and I think a home fabbed lathe composed of a drill would work fine.

I've seen two methods, tubing heat shrinked over a bolt to the end of the blank (could the heat damage the blank?) and a piece of foam over a bolt compressed by two nuts to make it expand to the ID of the blank. Also read about someone just taping the blank and throwing it in a drill, which led to the guy breaking the end of the blank by the force of the chuck.

One final question regarding two hand rod bottom grips. With the last and final cork, is that put on after everything is complete, and then shaped by hand? I'd imagine for people turning on the blank, they'd need the blank exposed so they can mount to it. And for those making the grip off the rod obviously can't slide the grip down the blank if it isn't open on both ends.

"Cons: Once grip is removed from rod, it needs to be reamed to be fitted to the blank. Due to the nature of fitting a completely assembled grip versus individual rings, there will be less of a true fit and thus requiring more epoxy"

If you're even remotely careful in reaming the grip the fit will be very close. The reamer should fit the bore and as the bore enlarges you switch to a larger reamer. The eventual fit should mimic the rod blank pretty close.

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I prefer off the rod I glue rings on the threaded shaft 2 washers ans wing nuts
When gluing Rod Bond don load it on you only need a thin coat This also helps to get it off the threaded rod When dry I loosen one nut then tighten the other pushes it loose Then unscrew it off

The reamers I use heavy grit strips glued on a piece of scrap blank They are tappered and you can get a very good fit if careful Go slow when reaming and turn the grip as it is turned Check the fit often

Bill - willierods.com

I turn all of my grips directly on the blank now. The reaming out of a 7 inch grip takes me too much time, and I've messed up grips not reaming them evenly. I once also broke a full grip forcing it into place. For me, it is much easier to ream out individual 1/2 inch rings, and then glue them together and to the blank.

I put a mandrel inside of the butt section, and put my chuck on the mandrel (insert evenly to make sure the blank spins true...) so I don't crush the blank. I turn mine on a Renzetti power wrapper that I use as a dedicated lathe.

On the rare occasion I mess up the shape of the grip, I sand it down to the blank and start over.

I do glue the bottom grip for two handed rods on a mandrel without the end piece though usually. Once it is clamped and the epoxy is set, I ream it to size (it needs to fit over the butt of the blank), and then glue on my no bore end piece, put it on a mandrel, and turn it to shape. Then I glue it to the blank.

There are Pros and Cons to either method.

On the blank you run the risk of opening up divits / holes in the cork - areas that you can't see until you start shaping. This is one reason that I've taken to very high quality cork or better yet composite "cork" rings. This way you can fit each ring's inside diameter better to the outside diameter of the blank

On a mandrel you run a risk of the cork rings splitting at the seams when you bore the center - admittedly proper care and attention eliminates that problem. What you will have is a continuous internal diameter for the cork that can leave a gap at the end of the grip. You can solve that many ways including thread & epoxy ramps; metal or rubber / nylon trim rings.

When shaping on the blank I leave the final ring / plug off the end & insert a dowel in the blank & taper the last glued cork as closely as possible to the outside diameter of the end cap ring. Another way to go about that is to glue all the corks in place; insert the dowel & turn everything & plan on inserting a finishing plug in the end when all the shaping is done.

Bottom line really is what you think will work best for you - you do NOT need a wood lathe to work with cork. Any of the wrapping lathes on the market will work just fine as will a drill with a support arm.

I have a drill set up similar to the flex coat drill set up I do cork Eva and soft wood
I also after gluing up the cork I ream it to fit a mandrel that is a scrap heavy walled blank or even solid glass If to soft I glue another bland section into the tube mandrel Check for how straight it is on rollers

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2015 11:29AM by bill boettcher.

Hi Matt,

I used to turn all of my grips on the blank. I messed one up, and that we enough to make me real careful from then on.

But I decided it was not worth damaging the blank or grip, so I now turn off of the blank. For me it was a matter of getting the proper tools, i.e: flexcoat pilot bit, wonder reamer, and a home made cork clamp. I also made my own drill support for turning the cork.

I glue my rings together with tightbond III, onto a non-threaded 1/4" or 3/8" metal rod from the hardware store, that has been cut 4" longer than the longest grip I would make. I clamp the cork using a bar type quick grip clamp with holes drilled in each side of the clamp to accommodate the metal bar. The tightbond doesn't stick to the metal too badly, but just in case I slide the glued grip off of the bar, after it has dried about an hour in front of a heater. I then slide it right back on, and turn it.

When I ream the grip out, I start with the flexcoat bit that matches the section of blank where the grip will be, first. I then ream with the wonder reamers for a proper fit and glue up.

When I turn a fighting butt or butt grip, that uses a solid rubberized ring as the cap, I glue it all up onto a metal rod (but without the rod sticking out on one end, because of the solid rubber ring) and I then drill it out to be able to slide up from the butt of the rod. After it is drilled out, I chuck a short length of metal rod or a drill bit into the drill, and build it up with masking tape to match the new inner diameter of the butt grip. I slide the grip on and turn it.

If the fishing rods taper is extreme, you may have to build the diameter up with some tape or thread when you slide the butt grip on, but with what I build, that rarely happens.

I use quick bond to glue the cork to the blank.

Take care,

Chris

Chris brings up a very good point - you should never have to ream a grip by much in order for it to fit the blank. You should start by doing one of two things:

1. Bore the rings and mount on a mandrel with an OD that is a match or just under a match for the forward OD portion on the blank where the grip will eventually reside.

2. Use the Flex Coat reverse pilot bits to enlarge a standard 1/4 inch bore turned grip to the same or just undersize of the forward OD portion on the blank where the grip will eventually reside.

Reaming should only be a final close fitting operation. I can't imagine trying to ream a 1/4inch bore grip to fit a 1/2 inch blank diameter.

...................

Matt,
Years ago, I made a full length rod lathe and used it to build many many rods.
The lathe was made by mounting a 3600 rpm buffer motor on the end of a 1X18 that had a slot milled down the center - leaving space with no slot to maintain the width of the lathe bed.
Then, I made rod rests, using aluminum and 3 skate board ball bearings for rod supports.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

After reaming each piece of cork for an exact fit on the blank where it is to be installed, I glue up the cork and reel seat onto the blank.

When I do this, I do not put a butt cap onto the grip. I do all of the shaping and rod building with no butt cap on the grip. After the rod is complete, I glue on the butt cap as needed.

To hold the full length blank and grips, I use a piece of solid glass material. I use cut offs from solid fiberglass fishing rods, or cut offs from fiberglass driveway markers that are inexpensively obtained from your nearby hardware store.

I have a 1/2 inch keyless chuck threaded onto the end of the threads on the buffer motor.

I put a piece of solid glass stock into the chuck on the buffer motor and then turn on the 3600 rpm buffer. I use coarse sand paper to sand a matching taper on the end of the solid glass material, so that the slightly tapered solid material may be inserted up into the butt of the rod blank for a secure hold and fit on the blank.

Then, I mount the rod in the full length rod lathe, adjusting the height of the rod rests as needed for the blank to remain in line with the lathe chuck. At each location where I place a rod rest, I put two wraps of masking tape on the blank to protect the blank from the metal of the rod rest ball bearings.

The first time that I start a new blank on the lathe, I do so with a great deal of caution and keep one hand on the blank as I cycle the start stop switch of the motor.

The issue is rod blank whip that could possibly destroy the rod. The rod rests need to be placed on the rod blank at position of "null" or minimum vibration in the blank to prevent destructive oscillation from destroying the blank.

The first rod rest at a thick spot about 2-3 feet from the butt of the rod is not an issue. The issue is the placement of the rods rests in the very thin or whippy locations of a lighter action blank.

For a heavy rod, I may only use two rests to support the rod with no issue. With a long and or whippy blank, I may use up to 5 rod rests to minimize whipping. I will generally start the motor momentarily with the first rod rest in place and run my hand down the rest of the unsupported rod to locate the null positions. When I find the first one, I put the 2nd rod rest at that point. Then I will continue to locate the null locations on down the rod, until there is adequate support for the blank to have no whipping or oscillation. After a few blanks have been done, and the locations found, the rod rests can generally stay in about the same positions for other rods and have no issue with whipping or oscillation.

Since this motor is a single speed 3600 rpm motor, this system is more likely to damage a blank if one is not VERY careful in positioning the rod rests to minimize vibration.

But, once the rod is solidly mounted, the motor can be switched on and off at will with no issues at all. The 3600 rpm turning speed makes quick work from shaping a blank. But, because of the speed, a light touch and a finer grit paper should be used to minimize going too quickly and or making a mistake.

The point about a void opening on some cork after shaping. With today's cork, this is pretty common and is expected. Then the grip is finished, I just go over the entire grip with filler and fill voids as needed. When dry, I turn the lathe back on and clean up the grip. I stop before getting the grip to the total finished dimension to check and fill any required voids so that when I do bring the grip to the final size, by sanding the grip and filler, I don't below the desired specification.

-------------------
Although I built the full length lathe and used it to build many many rods, I have not used it at all since getting a nice wood lathe with attached extension bed to have a 40 inch lathe. I can do all of the required grip shaping on the lathe and just to the final ream and fit to slip onto the grip. This also allows me to integrate the butt cap into the grip and turn the grip and butt cap together and just put a plug into the butt of the grip after the rod has been finished.

However, I still use the rod rests with my wood lathe when working with certain handles and I need to support the center of a long grip or need to do some center drilling on the lathe as shown in the attached picture:

[www.rodbuilding.org]

This was a picture of one of the many wood handles that I have made, using a rod rest to support the end of the finished grip as I completed a center hole drilling operation on the grip.

Take care



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2015 01:56PM by roger wilson.

Too afraid of ruining a $100+ blank in my case, I'm just a hobby builder. I use a drill press and just take my time reaming.

Only on the blank. I turn the grip and fighting butt simultaneously.
herb

Off blank. I have various sizes for mandrills made from steel rods. I also shopped garage sales for old rods that I can turn into framers. I have a large selection to pick from so final reaming is a snap. I also have various sizes in drill bits to match blank diameters.

I have turned all my grips on the blank for over 40 years and never had a problem. I have made hand reamers from 1/4' to 3/4' that should be inch and have reamed a 1/4" hole to 5/8" easily. I have a great set of carbide burrs that I can chuck in the lathe and change them out to ream anything, including wood. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do something!! They are wrong!! Experimentation and ingenuity have made rod building what it is today!!.

NO ONE is telling him he can not do it
He has to do it HIS WAY and find out which way he likes to do it

Bill - willierods.com

I don't believe I said any particular person was telling him he could not do it his way or that he can not do something. Just wanting him to know there are more than one way to skin a cat!!