Another question for the pros...

How does reel-rod matching figure into your guide layout, color selections, rod balancing, pricing, etc.?

Do you ask your customer to pick a reel before you begin working on a rod for them?

Do you have certain reel brands and models in mind when you're deciding on cost/price point, color palettes and other configurations for your "mass produced" rods?

I'm also wondering if anyone has thought of entering into deals with reel manufacturers to base your rod building model specs on their reel models to create referral customers.

Without having an idea of what reel your customer is going to use, you're not going to be able to fine tune certain aspects of the rod.

...................

If a customer has a reel I ask him to bring it with him. If he doesn't have a reel but knows what reel he will be using I can usually find information about the reel on line and approximate pretty closely the reel seat & guide train that will work for him. I do NOT have any 'standing inventory" or 'mass produced rods' on hand with the exception of my personal rods/reels - which a customer can shake & cast as much as he would like. Yes, I have MANY more rods than I need.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2015 11:27AM by Ken Preston.

Matthew

It seems to me that the type and size of rod determines the class or series of the reel. For instance I would not put a 4000 series reel on a 5 foot ultra lite rod at the same time I would not put a 1000 series reel on a 12 foot surf rod.
In a given class of reel there are small variations in size, weight and geometric configuration, but when mated to a suitable sized rod these variations contribute very little to the difference in the performance of the rod and would behave equally well.

The reel is usually in or near ones hand and is essentially the pivot point of the action and for all practical purposes is the pivot point, therefore the distance and the difference of mass or weight on the moment is insignificant. As far as casting (coil effects etc) there should be no significant difference.

If you do not what size reel is to be used then inform the customer what class/size of reel is recommended for the rod you are building.

As Ken said if you have a few extra rods let the customer shake & cast to his satisfaction.

One can never have enough rods.

John

So speaking of guide configuration, is NGC (New Guide Concept) - a system highly dependent on your specific reel - a popular phenomenon for custom rod builders? Or is it a Fuji marketing ploy (it requires more guides, and special Fuji guides at that)?

Matthew Yes the NGC is dependent on your reel size and not a phenomenon, it is the real deal. If you lay it out correctly it will work great. And it is not necessary to use Fuji guides nor is it a marking ploy. The Fuji guides do in fact work rather well, l however I have done quite a few NGC's using the Pac Bay Minima 4 guides. They are priced significantly lower than Fuji but my customers like the fact that they are Much lighter due to the fact there is no ceramic ring.

The extra guides are the running guides and are the least expensive. Not having compared a basic COF layout to the NGC I doubt the New Guide Concept is much if any more.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Just a couple of comments for clarity.

Don

Tom Wewerka Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Matthew Yes the NGC is dependent on your reel
> size and not a phenomenon, it is the real deal.

Ditto

> If you lay it out correctly it will work great.

The layout can support the effective use of either a spinning or convention reel.
(Dual Rung)

> And it is not necessary to use Fuji guides nor is
> it a marking ploy. The Fuji guides do in fact
> work rather well, l however I have done quite a
> few NGC's using the Pac Bay Minima 4 guides.

Minima guides are favorites among tournament distance casters.

> They are priced significantly lower than Fuji but
> my customers like the fact that they are Much
> lighter due to the fact there is no ceramic ring.

Minima guides do have a stainless steel ring.

Also, the Fuji LNAG guides in size 12 are about the same weight (sometimes lighter) as other guides. At size 16, you should find the LNAG heavier than the equivalent size Minima guide.

It was quite some time that I made the comparisons and I regret not documenting the results. Basically, I weighed 10 of each guide to obtain the average weight.

>
> The extra guides are the running guides and are
> the least expensive. Not having compared a basic
> COF layout to the NGC I doubt the New Guide
> Concept is much if any more.
>
> Tom

Don Becker

Don

Thank you on your clarifications. it is a beautiful system and does work well. Just last week I had a customer bring me a Factory Shimano spinning rod he said was casting poorly. It had #6 running guides with regular guides in front of it Starting with a 30. By sheer luck the first running guide was almost perfect for the 27X, so I added in the Fuji KLAG H to complete the guide train. He only words when trying it again was WOW.

Tom

For my area, a guys choice in reels oftens says a lot about his overall view. It isn't unusual for some to favor vintage large spool spinning reels, like mitchells and penns. If a guy wants to fish those reels I find there is little point in talking newer guide trains and lighter high modulus blanks. Ditto if he wants a 40# class conventional but is fishing a 6/0 senator.

So sometimes it isn't about fitting a reel to a blank....as much as fitting a fisherman, who wishes to use a certain reels, to a blank.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

I think the type of line used on a spinning rod, specifically how limp that line is, should make a considerable difference in the guide size(s) and placement on the blank if the rod will be used for casting.

I believe we need to summarize the information.

As mentioned by Russ, the fisherman's wants do play a part in the equation and do dictate the required outcome.

More basically, considerations are type fish, habitat/structure, terminal tackle, type and size line, type and size reel, fisherman and skills, rod characteristics to include length, line rating, lure rating, and action. All of these determine guide type, size, and layout.

Matthew did ask about color coordination. There are about 8 or 10 colors readily available for reels. In contrast, companies may stock about 40 to 80 colors of thread. If a special reel is to be used with the rod, it would be easier to match the rods colors to the reel. In mid August, I received a shipment of small conventional reels. These were colored by the manufacturer for a special order.

Here's is a sample picture. It took over a month to get the proper color. I was continually offered a color that had excessive pink in its makeup.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Although it would be difficult to change the characteristics of the above reel, it is possible to add a little bling to more mundane black/silver conventional Omoto & ABU reels in the 5000 & 6000 sizes. We stock 6000 size spools, end cap tensioners, standard size and mini star drag wheels, handles and handle nut retainers. Seven colors are available.

Don Becker