For those who build rods for a living, or even for supplemental income (in other words, not a hobbyist) what has been your biggest marketing challenge? What have you tried? Do you have all the business you want? Are you, like most true craftsmen, in the shop doing your thing hoping someone hears about you some day?

I'm a marketer by trade and am curious about this niche that I have recently sort-of joined (hobbyist). Can't wait to hear your story. And no, I'm not trying to sell you anything here.

Price for starters, but if your customers are balking at your price you're probably courting the wrong economic demographic to begin with.

A no-fault warranty is another. Few rod builders can afford to offer no-fault warranties and many fishermen assume that the more expensive a rod is the more resistant to breakage it should be.

.................

IMHO, the biggest competition are the store bought rods. It's hard to convince prospective clients that the custom rod has so much more performance for the price. I had a vendor tell me "if you can't make at least $100 per rod you won't be in business a year from now". I find the market is hard to support a $100 profit per rod and I buy everything at wholesale pricing and pass the components savings on to the customer. It is a very competitive market.

Don Campbell
don@sensorfishingrods.com

Tom has summed it up quite well. Yes, I do say "no" to prospective customers. Some because they want to compare my prices to off-the-shelf rods and others because they want something that is impossible to back with a guarantee (for example a combination live lining, jigging & trolling rod that will perform all tasks equally). Marketing comment #1 is word of mouth from previous customers; #2 is an on-line presence (web site and to a little bit lesser degree facebook); #3 is making yourself available (sometimes for an extended period of time) to discuss the "needs, desires" of the customer; #4 is a solid, well understood repair or replacement guarantee (abuse and fisherman's error is not covered).

I offered to build a guy a 6wt fly rod for $60 because the guy didn't have much money. I told him that the cost of the parts, not including labor, was more than $60 and sure enough he wanted a warranty. He didn't seem to care that I was losing money to build the rod in the first place or that I was trying to do him a favor. Like Tom said, wrong demographics. This kind of a person doesn't need a custom rod or would be able to appreciate one anyway. Many of the rods that I have seen on this site are nothing short of artwork and the people that build them are without a doubt artists. Find a person that appreciates your work and let the others go to Wallymart.

Take a lesson from manufacturers of mass-produced rods: convince customers that your rods excel in intangibles such as "sensitivity," "tracking," "feel," "action," "responsiveness," "smoothness" etc. The marketing challenges of individual and mass rod marketers are not much different, save labor costs and the ability of a rod builder to satisfy an individual customer's specific requests.

Phil,
No matter how you want to coat it, today's production rods can be very very good.

In reality, it seems that for many folks about the only thing that is better about a custom rod, is that the customer has his choice of thread colors or a custom grip and or reel seat.

Often, the production blank is identical to the blank that the custom rod builder is using.

Don't have a problem selling rods.
It's the other way around.
When a perspective client approaches me about building a rod, the first things I let them know are that;

They are looking at a 4-to-6 month waiting period.
I only build bass rods.
With very few exceptions, I build exclusively for tournament angles.
It will be money up front.
Minimum cost will be $450.00.

If any of these criteria are unacceptable I send them to another builder.

Many of my clients are repetitive, so they know up front what they are looking at and usually the only concern is them trying to shorten the waiting period. Which sometimes but seldom happens and they except it with a sigh.

I know you do good work

But what makes your rods so popular And why do you have a waiting list
$450 I would think you are getting at least 100.00 from that Plus
Attitude ?? The last bass guy I gave a break to for less

Bill - willierods.com

STEVE: "...When a perspective client approaches me about building a rod, the first things I let them know are that;

They are looking at a 4-to-6 month waiting period.
I only build bass rods.
With very few exceptions, I build exclusively for tournament angles.
It will be money up front.
Minimum cost will be $450.00.

If any of these criteria are unacceptable I send them to another builder."


That actually sounds like the approach a custom rod builder needs: "I offer an exclusive, sought-after product that's not for everyone." With high-end luxury products, this is the type of "branding" that's recommended.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2015 07:43PM by Matthew Tuers.

"Marketing comment ... #3 is making yourself available (sometimes for an extended period of time) to discuss the "needs, desires" of the customer; #4 is a solid, well understood repair or replacement guarantee (abuse and fisherman's error is not covered)."

That's interesting, Ken... the idea that "consultation" can be a big part of the process. I'd think that's a really good opportunity to also sell the rod, close the deal and to (gently) educate the customer in proper rod care and handling. If they choose not to listen to you, they're less likely to come and complain when their negligence results in a damaged product. Maybe even put that on paper for them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2015 07:42PM by Matthew Tuers.

Hi,

Every job that I have been employed at deals with servicing people, US Navy, computer tech, working deck on party boats, Capt. of party boats/ launches and rod building. I know what service is all about, good and bad. Being a plain vanilla guy people know that my word is good, no bologna!


The above gives me a good start. I knew I wanted to design/build custom rods that the owners had fun catching fish with, the rods gave sensitivity and durability, were light weigh and could be held all day, they did not look like every other rod on the party boat and were reasonable priced.

Many years ago I could not give my rack rods away and therefore no orders. Then I went to work on another party boat in another port. These anglers wanted better fishing rods and were willing to pay. At the same time I offered to do speaking engagements at local fishing clubs. About the same time Noreast.com fishing site showed up on line and I started answering fishing rod building questions. Local fishing shows in the Spring and Fall also got my facial and name recognition out in public. Years ago with a couple of rod building friends I did rod build lessons for up to 20 people. All the above helped me to build a name and recognition.

Early on I realized that we could not see blanks and pull on them as they for the most part were not available. Also back in the day many rod builders would not share info. I was a member of Rod Crafters for over 15 years and those gentlemen did much to make me a better rod builder. They would share everything and were very supportive. I met many of the best rod designers/builders in the US. I travelled to many RodCrafter Seminars held all around the US of A.

My quest for better blanks that would work for my customers led me to many blank companies. Many orders went out in search of the best blanks for our catching jobs. Yes, some did not work out and they are still in storage. BUT, I found blanks that I have been building for many years. In the past 3 years I have tried blanks from emerging blank companies and my customers love these new blanks. I think that the blanks created by RODgeeks are the last new company that I will try. I like their blank designs and how they do business and what they offer a rod builder.

Customers that get to my basement and see all the blanks available for them to flex just shake their heads. A couple years ago I had close to 500 blanks in the "Blank cave", ha, ha. This gives my customers good choices. They appreciate this.

Something else I do is have a design meeting in my shop/den. It takes about 2 hours. My customers input is most important for my designing them the best rod for them. They always give a favorable reaction to these design meetings. They like being part of the process and many times bring wives and friends with them. They know exactly what they are getting with their rod. No surprises when they pick up their new catching too.

Early on I learned a very valuable lesson. As soon as a new customer contacts me I explain my pricing system. Then he either asks for a design meeting or goes his way. Nothing worse than spending time with a potential and then have him say, "Oh O did not know the rod is that expensive".

The hardest part for me in the beginning was fear of REJECTION! It is very real and takes years to over come. Most had to do with pricing my labor rate. Other very good builders kept pressing me to raise my prices. I knew they were right BUT again fear of REJECTION. Little by little I raised my prices and lo and behold customers did not complain. So it worked out and REJECTION is a word I know nothing about these days.

With all the blanks I try, making demo rods of the best of them has been most satisfying. I fish them. I loan them out to better anglers than I to get their report. Many types of fishing I do not get the opportunity to perform.. I have special anglers who do those types of fishing so they take the rods out to sea for me and evaluate them. When a customer is not sure which blank is best for him I send him off with demo rods to test. This system really works but it is not inexpensive for me.

Did I mention Google? Amazing what I write ends up on Google. It works for me.

Also donation rods. Any given year I donate 10-20 rods to various organizations. All top quality blanks and components. People like that.

But Capt., you did not tell us how much you charge to build a rod. I build simple basic fish catching rods that are fun to use. If you want very special wraps or something I don't do I will refer my customer to other rod builders who are specialists in their field and they are my friends also.

Okay, I charge $150 to build a basic rod, $15 for supplies/electricity/ etc., list cost for components, if I give you the whole sale rate for components I add 10% for shipping. I also add $10 for Excise Tax and 8.625% for NYS Sales tax. Any extra wrapping is added to the cost.

So there you have it. My 76 year old soul has been bared, ha,ha. This is my journey of about 30 years, some as a hobbyist and most trying to pay $12,000/year in property taxes. Long Island the land of taxation and politicians who love to spend my hard earned money.

I hope that this will answer some questions for you. Probably create some questions also. It has been a wonderful journey that I would not trade. Many of my customers become good friends. If I were to ask on Noreast, "Will some one take me fishing", the replies would be so many and that is a wonderful blessing.

Now that you have read my story, this is what I tell my closest friends who offer to help be do better. I tell them I was am not a good business
person. And I mean that. I am a service person who is honest, truthful, plain vanilla and it has worked for me.

Time to see who is winning the NASCAR Race. Go JOEY!!! 22

Capt Neil Faulkner

Hi,

Every job that I have been employed at deals with servicing people, US Navy, computer tech, working deck on party boats, Capt. of party boats/ launches and rod building. I know what service is all about, good and bad. Being a plain vanilla guy people know that my word is good, no bologna!


The above gives me a good start. I knew I wanted to design/build custom rods that the owners had fun catching fish with, the rods gave sensitivity and durability, were light weigh and could be held all day, they did not look like every other rod on the party boat and were reasonable priced.

Many years ago I could not give my rack rods away and therefore no orders. Then I went to work on another party boat in another port. These anglers wanted better fishing rods and were willing to pay. At the same time I offered to do speaking engagements at local fishing clubs. About the same time Noreast.com fishing site showed up on line and I started answering fishing rod building questions. Local fishing shows in the Spring and Fall also got my facial and name recognition out in public. Years ago with a couple of rod building friends I did rod build lessons for up to 20 people. All the above helped me to build a name and recognition.

Early on I realized that we could not see blanks and pull on them as they for the most part were not available. Also back in the day many rod builders would not share info. I was a member of Rod Crafters for over 15 years and those gentlemen did much to make me a better rod builder. They would share everything and were very supportive. I met many of the best rod designers/builders in the US. I travelled to many RodCrafter Seminars held all around the US of A.

My quest for better blanks that would work for my customers led me to many blank companies. Many orders went out in search of the best blanks for our catching jobs. Yes, some did not work out and they are still in storage. BUT, I found blanks that I have been building for many years. In the past 3 years I have tried blanks from emerging blank companies and my customers love these new blanks. I think that the blanks created by RODgeeks are the last new company that I will try. I like their blank designs and how they do business and what they offer a rod builder.

Customers that get to my basement and see all the blanks available for them to flex just shake their heads. A couple years ago I had close to 500 blanks in the "Blank cave", ha, ha. This gives my customers good choices. They appreciate this.

Something else I do is have a design meeting in my shop/den. It takes about 2 hours. My customers input is most important for my designing them the best rod for them. They always give a favorable reaction to these design meetings. They like being part of the process and many times bring wives and friends with them. They know exactly what they are getting with their rod. No surprises when they pick up their new catching too.

Early on I learned a very valuable lesson. As soon as a new customer contacts me I explain my pricing system. Then he either asks for a design meeting or goes his way. Nothing worse than spending time with a potential and then have him say, "Oh O did not know the rod is that expensive".

The hardest part for me in the beginning was fear of REJECTION! It is very real and takes years to over come. Most had to do with pricing my labor rate. Other very good builders kept pressing me to raise my prices. I knew they were right BUT again fear of REJECTION. Little by little I raised my prices and lo and behold customers did not complain. So it worked out and REJECTION is a word I know nothing about these days.

With all the blanks I try, making demo rods of the best of them has been most satisfying. I fish them. I loan them out to better anglers than I to get their report. Many types of fishing I do not get the opportunity to perform.. I have special anglers who do those types of fishing so they take the rods out to sea for me and evaluate them. When a customer is not sure which blank is best for him I send him off with demo rods to test. This system really works but it is not inexpensive for me.

Did I mention Google? Amazing what I write ends up on Google. It works for me.

Also donation rods. Any given year I donate 10-20 rods to various organizations. All top quality blanks and components. People like that.

But Capt., you did not tell us how much you charge to build a rod. I build simple basic fish catching rods that are fun to use. If you want very special wraps or something I don't do I will refer my customer to other rod builders who are specialists in their field and they are my friends also.

Okay, I charge $150 to build a basic rod, $15 for supplies/electricity/ etc., list cost for components, if I give you the whole sale rate for components I add 10% for shipping. I also add $10 for Excise Tax and 8.625% for NYS Sales tax. Any extra wrapping is added to the cost.

So there you have it. My 76 year old soul has been bared, ha,ha. This is my journey of about 30 years, some as a hobbyist and most trying to pay $12,000/year in property taxes. Long Island the land of taxation and politicians who love to spend my hard earned money.

I hope that this will answer some questions for you. Probably create some questions also. It has been a wonderful journey that I would not trade. Many of my customers become good friends. If I were to ask on Noreast, "Will some one take me fishing", the replies would be so many and that is a wonderful blessing.

Now that you have read my story, this is what I tell my closest friends who offer to help be do better. I tell them I am not a good business
person. And I mean that. I am a service person who is honest, truthful, plain vanilla and it has worked for me.

So is my $150 labor rate a good thing for my customers?

Time to see who is winning the NASCAR Race. Go JOEY!!! 22

Capt Neil Faulkner

$150.00 is a good price for labor -- I go $100.00 - $125.00

But
When one sends about 15 - 20 emails to a customer Shows picts of seats - handles - thread wraps - and more Lets them know of up charges with each

And then at the end of the conversation is told they can not afford it -- or that they will get in touch when they have the money ------------- Well that @#$%& me off after so many emails - and time wasted

NOW I just give them a price for a Plain Jane rod ---- YET tell them there are better parts that will cost more if they want them


IF people are being sent to me just to break my balls -- Wonderful - The first thing I ask is HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT TO SPEND - and we start from there
PLUS
I give a Guarantee - unless ( they ) Broke the rod

But
I can not buy seats - blanks - or other parts by the hundreds to save money like the big boys = all I can do is back up up my work

It is becoming a LOUSING PROPOSITION
The prices of parts are going UP TOO MUCH !!! A blank is almost as much as a Finished Rod

Bill - willierods.com

Capt Neil Faulkner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The hardest part for me in the beginning was fear
> of REJECTION! It is very real and takes years to
> over come. Most had to do with pricing my labor
> rate. Other very good builders kept pressing me
> to raise my prices. I knew they were right BUT
> again fear of REJECTION. Little by little I
> raised my prices and lo and behold customers did
> not complain. So it worked out and REJECTION is a
> word I know nothing about these days.

Being a craftsman is tough because so many people think that you love doing it, so you're willing to accept less compensation. Couple this with the "fear of rejection" you're talking about and an entire industry can become undervalued.

I do graphic design quite a bit, and it's the same old story: so many freelancers out there are selling themselves short to where customers don't have any appreciation for it and you can barely make a living at it any more. If you want to do it 9-5 in a regular job, ditto - unless you're one of those superstars working on Madison Ave.

bill boettcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> $150.00 is a good price for labor -- I go $100.00
> - $125.00

But how many hours total, on average, do you spend consulting and working on the rod? If it's ten hours, say, you're only making $10-12.50/hour! Maybe that's where skill and speed becomes the competitive advantage.

You never want to price your work on a "per hour" basis or as you get better and better you'll be making less and less. But, if you have a standard labor fee and can reduce your time for the same money, then you make more and more as you become more proficient.

What you will find is that in most parts of the country the custom rod business is not a lucrative one. Few are able to make a living at it without subsidizing it with repair, tackle sales, charter trips, etc.

......................

Matthew Tuers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Marketing comment ... #3 is making yourself
> available (sometimes for an extended period of
> time) to discuss the "needs, desires" of the
> customer; #4 is a solid, well understood repair or
> replacement guarantee (abuse and fisherman's error
> is not covered)."
>
> That's interesting, Ken... the idea that
> "consultation" can be a big part of the process.
> I'd think that's a really good opportunity to also
> sell the rod, close the deal and to (gently)
> educate the customer in proper rod care and
> handling. If they choose not to listen to you,


> they're less likely to come and complain when
> their negligence results in a damaged product.
> Maybe even put that on paper for them.


Here's an example - within the past 2 weeks. A fellow came to me for a repair job on a St. Croix rod. First I asked him if he had contacted St. Croix (no, he had not). Then he asked me if it would be possible to extend the rear grip (yes, I can do that). "Good I'd rather have you do the guide repair and extend the butt grip" We not only discussed the length of the extension but I also pulled a similar blank out of the rack so he could hold it as he would fish it. Once he had the new blank in his hand and had flexed it, pulled on it and we discussed guide placement finally: "How much would it cost to make this as a second "popping rod?" We fixed a price, I did a static deflection so he could see where the guides should go - he didn't like the "look" of the placement & wanted the placement to look more like an off-the-shelf rod - but with the extended handle. Fast forward 1 week with a phone call "Hey Ken, I was wrong on the guide placement - the rod doesn't cast like I thought it would" Me: "Ok bring it on by & I'll correct the placement for you - but understand that I will have to charge you for parts and labor" Him: "No problem - this was my fault - and while I'm there I want another couple of rods" ... For me one-on-one & hands on whenever possible works just fine. My time investment on first meeting - about an hour. End result one repair and three new rods.

In the rod building business I suspect customer relations are as much or even more important than craftsmanship. A buyer who does not know how to fish or where or how his rod will be used to fish is a greater problem than silicon-impregnated wrapping thread. It's easier and quicker to re-wrap a rod than to teach someone how to fish.

I am a hobbyist, building for myself, family, a few friends, and a little charity work. If I were to charge $200 for labor, I'd be better off working at the grocery store. I think to make a living at this one would have to do all the good stuff you all have mentioned, and be a lot faster than I.

I do think that there is a market for theme rods above and beyond the normal. A charity I build for in the Lansing MI area goes nuts for MSU themed rods. I'll bet Alabama rods would get a real premium.

I also think a lot of custom builders may be just making rods that are essentially indistinguishable from factory rods. Like Roger said, factory rods can be very good these days. Custom builders need to find a feature or look that the factory rods haven't come up with yet. Like Microwave guides. I don't think the custom builders have yet to take advantage that development. Like the foam ramps I use, turned so nicely that the transition between the ramp and the blank is so smooth it needs no winding checks, painted to compliment (complement? You know what I mean) the color of the blank. They are quick to make and the rods look nothing like a factory rod with the winding checks, some of which look like hub caps on cars (If you have a split grip there are three, and they do attract attention to something that in my opinion looks pretty crude.) I think carbon fiber is another opportunity not yet developed much. Yes, high on labor time unless you buy them already done by experts who make every one look like a million bucks. I haven't seen a factory rod with carbon fiber grips yet; if there are any , there are not many. People who see mine in the sun think they are the simply beautiful.