I have never built a bass rod, Interested in throwing plastic worms with out additional bullet weights I see that conventional rods have abt 15 inch handles for a 2 handed cast. On a 7 ft rod that leaves abt a 6 ft of actual casting rod. . Distance is an important factor will 6ft do the job? Im also considering a spinning rod better choice? .Rod is a medium fast. Plan to use braid line. thanks

Bill,

I use an older Batson 822.5 for weightless plastics. Mine is built as a casting rod, but spinning will more easily throw most weightless plastics. I built it for casting jigs and grubs, but casting weightless plastics is one of the other uses I found for the rod. In relation to Batson's newer lines, if they have 2 6'10" models with an extra fast action in the lineup the most comparable one will be the rod with the smaller butt diameter. Also look at the rods in the drop shot line from MHX, Hydra, etc. This type of blank has a very limber tip that loads nicely with light lures, yet has the backbone to push a hook through the plastic on the hookset. Lengths generally range from 6'8" to 7'2" for these types of rods.

When casting weightless plastics the shape of the lure and its density are going to have a big impact on how far it goes, something like a Senko is dense enough that you can cast it a long way even with casting gear, however, something like the original Zoom Fluke can be tough to cast and will only go so far with either casting or spinning gear. If you feel you really need to get the lures a little further, a trick I use is to use a double rig. I tie the first on with a palomar knot and leave a tag long enough so I can tie on another about 8"-18" away. The second lure helps trigger strikes when fish are a little reluctant to bite a single lure rig. There are other ways of rigging a double fluke rig, search for donkey rig, that use a 3 way swivel, but I haven't found it necessary.

On rods 6'6"+, I like a handle that measures about 9.75" from the butt to the reel stem on a spinning rod or the trigger on a casting rod. This puts the rear grip at about 9" on a casting rod and about 8" on an up-locking spinning rod. The butt is short enough that I can easily maneuver the rod without it getting in the way, but long enough for good two-handed casting.

I find these rods to have adequate length for what I ask of them, but if you really feel you want something longer, I think St. Croix makes a 7'6" MLXF blank that would serve you well.

Joe

Here is our websites incase you need to look for different rod blanks! www.rainshadowrodblanks.com

THanks!

R. McBride

Batson Enterprises
BatsonEnterprises.com | RainShadowRodBlanks.com | ALPSForeCast.com | Build2Fish.com

Bill, I too like to throw un -weighted plastics and built a rod just for that purpose last year. I used Batson SPG782 e-glass,6'-6". I really like the rod but unfortunately trying to power a cast to get the distance ends up with constant overrun on the reel. If you ease up on the cast you lose distance. Trying different reels and different techniques all last year I finally gave up and back to a spinning rod. As Joe says, the rod works great with a little weight like a small jig or large split shot but I think you will be disappointed in casting naked plastics. That being said, you may have better luck with a longer length rod,I don't know. If you do try it let us know how it works out. I'd still like to build a casting rod that works with the light weight plastics. Good luck.....bob v

Bill -

I would go with a 10" grip on a 7' rod. This would be from butt to the back edge of the reel seat.

A lot depends on the type of worms you are throwing. If you are throwing a trick worm, you'll need a lighter tip, and a spinning rod would let you move to a little stiffer rod. If you are throwing a 5" senko, you're going to be ok with a 1/4 - 3/4 oz lure weight mag bass blank.

Be happy to talk you through our products over the phone if you need detailed help. We know a few things about bass rods.

Thanks,

Alex

Hydra Fishing, LLC

Online: [www.hydrafishing.com]
Facebook: [www.facebook.com]
Email: info@hydrafishing.com

Probably the most versatile type of rod you could build for the bait you mentioned would be a spinning rod, simply because you'd be able to handle a wider variety of worm types. As has been said, casting a 5" Senko is no problem on casting gear, but trying to throw a Zoom Trick Worm or other fairly light worm on casting gear is going to present a problem.

As far as wondering if 6' of rod (reel to tip top) is going to be enough to cast long distances goes .... I personally would be more concerned about using a blank with a medium fast action robbing me of casting distance, than I would anything else. The extra fast action that Joe mentioned IMO would be a much better choice for the lure type you mentioned. When casting light baits you want a fast, limber tip. You're firing casts, verses lob casting them.

As far as blanks you may want to consider. I haven't built on too many different brands of blanks, as I just started building rods this year. But I did build two 6'6" spinning rods on the Quickline series of blanks, from Pacific Bay. I used the QLSJ782. The blank is rated as medium light power, 1/8 - 3/8 oz lures, 6 - 12 lb line, with an extra fast action. It's a high modulus, thin wall blank and is extremely light, has a nice crisp action, and very sensitive, with a beautiful gloss black finish. I use the rods for drop shot rigs, shaky head jigs, and wacky worming with small 4 - 6" worms. It's an awesome blank, and is perfect for the above mentioned techniques I use it for.

You are into what is becoming known "Bait Finesse" territory; finesse baitcasting gear. If you have the scale to do it, weigh the bait / hook combinations you want the use, and buy a blank that will load with the lightest of those weights. I've almost finished one for myself. It's a Rainshadow Immortal blank, from their walleye series; 7'2" medium light power, fast action spinning rod blank, built as a casting rod. I trimmed 2" from the butt, installed a 7" Winn rear grip, trimmed Alps real seat, no fore grip and Recoil guides. Size 5 single foot for the stripper, bumper and first runner, then size 4 to the tip, a Sic titanium tiptop. It will load and cast an 1/8oz bait.

While the rod is the most important consideration, you can't leave out the reel and line.

There are currently available a number of casting reels capable of casting 1/8oz offerings. You're not going to be able to do what you want using an Ambassadeur spooled up with 17lb test line.

I use all Daiwa casting reels, several of which can handle small weights, so those are what I'm comfortable recommending. The best I have for this type of application is the SS SV, a 5.3oz reel that I built the above mentioned rod specifically for. I have it spooled with 6lb test fluorocarbon line. Almost as good is the PX-R. The PX-R is available here. The SS SV is only sold in Japan, but you can order one.

I should mention I am a complete novice at this rod building thing, so take my comments with a grain of salt. Or a handful. I am, however, an old hand at tuning and tweaking casting reels. Been doing that for a long time, and have a lot of happy customers who have reels tuned by me.

A side note; two thumbs up for the Winn grips. I like the one I've installed a lot. And, if had four thumbs, I'd put "em all up for those Immortal blanks. This is the fourth rod I've built using anImmortal blank, and I'm impressed.

Gary, I couldn't agree more on the Immortal blanks. I've only built on one thus far, and I'll definitely be building on more of them in the future. They are phenomenal.

Thank you everyone for your support on our rod blanks! RainShadow Immortal Rod Blanks have been a great seller!

R. McBride

Batson Enterprises
BatsonEnterprises.com | RainShadowRodBlanks.com | ALPSForeCast.com | Build2Fish.com

Thank you everyone for your support on our rod blanks! RainShadow Immortal Rod Blanks have been a great seller!

R. McBride

Batson Enterprises
BatsonEnterprises.com | RainShadowRodBlanks.com | ALPSForeCast.com | Build2Fish.com

Thank you everyone for your support on our rod blanks! RainShadow Immortal Rod Blanks have been a great seller!

R. McBride

Batson Enterprises
BatsonEnterprises.com | RainShadowRodBlanks.com | ALPSForeCast.com | Build2Fish.com

Thank you for all the information you have shared , Its a lot to digest. I'm a beginner in the art of bass fishing. . It would seem to me that a fast action rod and a light weight lure would not give the the rod time enough to load . Can you straighten me out on this point?

Bill,

If casting distance were the name of the game, then you would want a blank that flexes deeply, use as few guides as possible and build bare bones as light as possible. The problem lies in the fact that a rod used for fishing must also deal with hooking and landing fish.

You could build a 0 or 1 power popping blank that will load very well with weightless plastics and cast them quite well, but unless you are using very light wire open hooks on your plastics, you will have issues with hooking bass. You need a fair amount of power to drive most hooks designed for fishing plastic worms. This is where the fast and extra fast actions will help you. These blanks will have a more limber tip compared to a moderate action rod of the same power. So when you cast a light lure on these blanks, you can load the rod, but not as deeply as a slower action rod. The tradeoff is that you will need a faster casting stroke, and often a two-handed cast, which is common with distance casting in any case. I like to think of a medium power extra fast action rod as having the tip of a medium light rod paired with the butt of a medium power rod. The tip is easier to load, and you still have the power to move a fish.

Joe

That was going to be my next question Joe , Ive been experimenting with slower rods they do load and throw the light bait better but Im sure I will loose a lot of fish because of poor hooking power. thanks for the tip

Bill, Joe's reference to needing a faster casting stroke is what I was trying to convey when I said that you'd be "firing casts, verses lob casting" Using the speed of the cast to load the blank, verses using a lighter powered, slower action blank that allowed more of the length of the blank to load.

With that said I'll also be honest and say that I have very little experience with casting light baits, with very light power, moderate action rods. The experience I have had with such a rod is limited to using a noodle rod to fish for steelhead in area rivers. I never had the need to make what would be considered a long cast, My need for the light power and slow action was to protect light line once I hooked a fish.

I'm a dedicated bass fisherman, and I hope what I am about to say isn't taken the wrong way, because it's not intended to be the least bit derogatory, but I wouldn't even consider using such a rod for bass fishing. Simply because I don't believe such a rod could consistently hook or land fish in any but the most optimum conditions. And it's not because of the lack of hooking power such a rod would have. You can compensate for a lack of hook setting power with as Joe mentioned, light wire hooks, and also through the use of super lines. But you can't compensate for a lack of power when it comes to fighting a fish. Even a one pound bass can put some fairly stout tackle to the test around certain types of cover.

Ultimately the choice of rod power and action are up to you, but I truly believe that a medium light power, extra fast action rod in the 7' range would serve you quite well.

Dave, thank you for clarifying casting techniques. I did take it the wrong way. I'm in the the process of building a medium fast action rod which holds some promise , power in the medium range , I started it before initiating my topic. . I like to think out of the box and have perhaps thought of some creative ideas which I will be glad to share. Joe Vanfossen recommended using 2 light worms to add extra weight . I picked up 3 small bass very quickly . All the fish were taken on the upper worm. Which in my limited knowledge , assumed the fish were holding about a foot off the bottom or perhaps the action of the top worm?

Here is something I don't understand . Suppose you make a long cast . "Proper technique " is to raise the rod lower and reel in the slack then repeat.I was under the assumption that raising the rod raised the worm off the bottom.If a person is using a 7ft rod casting 20 to 25 yards I dont see how that could possibly raise that worm. I think its dragging the worm on the bottom . As the worm gets closer to the to the rod I believe it then can be raised. So for longer casts worm glides on the bottom no reason to raise rod till there is a shorter distance?

Bill,

When the fish come on the top worm, they are biting the first thing they see. These are generally the more active fish. When I catch fish on the second worm, they are usually coming through more open water, i.e. there is some distance above the weeds to the worm, or the worms are some distance away from cover. These fish I typically feel are typically slightly less active and the idea of snagging a quick meal by eating something in the water that is preoccupied with chasing something else triggers the bite. In a pond situation with floating algae around the pond, the lead fluke in a double hook rig often gets hit just after the lures land or as the rig passes next to the mat. The trailing fluke gets hit more often as I'm working over the top of weeds. I have a local pond that I'll go to for a quick fix and when the fish are active one fluke will catch them, but when they aren't active that trailing fluke gives the fish just a bit more time and results in catching a few fish when otherwise they wouldn't bite.

In regard to crawling vs. dragging, the direction of the force on the lure is in the direction of the line which is toward you and up. As the lure gets deeper the water pressure increases and the lure becomes slightly buoyant (This is how Galileo's thermometer works, with the small bulbs suspended in a water column). The result when a slight continuous force is applied it may not be enough to cause the lure to lift off the bottom and it will crawl along. However, if you give it a quick twitch, the lure will hop along. The amount of rod movement and the speed of the movement determine how large the hop is. Go and experiment in some shallow water where you can see your lure, and better yet if you can take an opportunity to watch a lure being worked through a swimming pool from under water, take that opportunity.

You are correct in that as the lure gets closer the angle between the bottom and the line increases making it more likely to hop as a greater amount of the force is in the upward direction, but unless you have an absurd amount of line out, you will still be able to hop the lure when it is further away.

If you want some good reading on retrieves for soft plastics, look up Ned Kehde at Field and Stream. Dig around through his blog or do a Google search for Midwest Finesse Retrieves. You will find 6 retrieves outlined that will cover fishing soft plastics whether they are the small jigs employed in MWF, or flipping jigs and large rubber worms. Do some experimenting with the various retrieves on the water, and you may find that one works one day and another works the next, or changes by the hour even. The MWF guys take finesse to the extreme, and is nothing new. It's the way that many good fishermen have been fishing for 5 decades or more.

Joe Thanks for that interesting information. To make the worm raise more in longer casts I have been high sticking the rod . It hasn't worked yet but I have not given it much of a chance. thanks for your help.

American Tackle's Bushido SJ72/6-12 OR THE SJ 72/8-15 A
are awesome blank for wacky worms and jigs. Try them, you will not be disappointed.

Bill, I've yet to use a double worm or fluke rig, so I could only guess why one bait is taken over the other.

I would think that the speed of the retrieve you're using would have something to do with which bait is taken more often. My guess would be that using a faster twitching retrieve with shorter pauses, would trigger a competition response from a bass, causing them to take the first bait, before the second following bait could get it. Or, the bass may take the second bait because as Joe mentioned, the following bait would be preoccupied with chasing the front bait, and be less aware. Making it easier prey. Or it could be a proximity thing. It's going to eat the closest bait, first.

A slower dragging retrieve could be tied to which bait was seen by the bass first. The thickness of the cover you're working would definitely play a roll as well. In thicker cover a bass may take the first bait if it can see it initially, or it may not see the first bait but be alerted to the presence of potential prey by the sound or water disturbance the first bait causes, and take the second bait as it comes by.

Like I said, I can only guess. One thing I know for sure is .... bass may go to school, but they don't necessarily read the same books that we anglers do.

As far as your worm coming off the bottom when you lift the rod goes, You have to take more into consideration than just the angle of your line. The line's diameter, how much line is in the water, and the line's composition will affect the amount a bait will rise as well. A thicker line that creates more water resistance will cause the bait to rise more, as will a line that floats verses a line that sinks. And while deeper water will increase the angle between rod tip and bait, it also puts more line in the water, which creates more water resistance, and therefore, more lift.

Also consider that you have a trailing bait which adds weight, water resistance, and friction with the bottom or any cover that may be present. Those combined factors are going to cause the leading bait to rise. And as Joe also mentioned, the speed you lift your rod will have an affect, as will the distance between the baits.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2015 04:58AM by David Baylor.