I have built a few spinning rods lately using the 27x method and like it. However, I just used this formula on a 6'6" rod and the choker guide hit 8" from the tip. This made me wonder about a few things using this method.

1. If you use a large enough reel - you can actually miss the end of the rod with the choker guide. So, I assume that it is necessary to make sure the reel that is used with that particular rod is not large enough at the lip of the line spool to cause this to happen? Which would also, mean that matching sizes of reels to lengths of rods is another step in a custom rod matched with a reel.
2. When measuring the length for the choker guide - should the reel spool be extended or retracted for the starting point?
3. If a large reel (say an 8000 series) that would cause this issue to happen on a 6'6" rod, and the static test was used to place the guides - I assume this would just not be a very good casting setup?
4. What measurement from tip would be considered "to close for the choker guide" ? Causing the need for a smaller reel or a longer blank.
5. Since the size reel spool lip is the determining factor on the choker guide placement - where can you get this dimension prior to buying a rod blank for that specific reel?

Jon Hood

Jon: The type of line you use - braid or monofilament - also has a substantial effect upon ideal guide placement. Simple solutions, including "27x", are frequently ineffective.

The distance from the choker to the tip is immaterial, of course, as it is the distance from the reel to the choker that matters. Any additional beyond the choker guide is just that, additional length which you take up with running guides. As you may already have discovered, 27X is highly effective with any type and/or size of line. It is the one "all around" NGC that simply works exceptionally well with nearly all set ups.

1. Yes, if the reel is exceptionally large, you can have a choker guide location that is beyond the tip of the rod blank, in which case the tiptop is the choker guide. No running guides needed. No, this is not a "cone of flight" type arrangement, as the COF requires that you use very large diameter guides to frame the "cone." 27X reduces the cone into a straight, slim path.

2. Put the spool in the middle of its travel.

3. Putting such a huge reel on a such a relatively short rod is not at all common. It only tends to exist in offshore stand up fishing where spinning tackle is sometimes used. In those cases, the primary consideration is lifting power and line recovery, not casting distance.

4. There is no "too close for the choker guide" to the tiptop. Line control happens between the reel and the choker guide, not between the choker guide and the tiptop. Once the line is in the choker, the process is finished. Forget about how far the choker is from the tiptop - it doesn't matter and has nothing to do with the performance of the system.

5. You'd have to ask someone to measure it for you, or visit a local sporting goods store and measure yourself. I'm not aware of any manufacturer that provides spool diameter for spinning reels.

.................

As always - thanks for the info Tom !

Jon Hood

Hi Tom,
As I recall back in the COF days, there were fold down guides that allowed small guide rings to be used. The guides could be spaced just as the larger rings so that there was straight line from butt guide to the tip top which functioned as the choke guide. I suspect (but don't really know) that these folding guides were never very popular. As a result we used very large rings in order to get the necessary height. I used a four inch butt guide on a surf spinning rod I built in that era.

Today we have single foot spinning guides with very high frames which allows us to use guides with smaller diameter rings. The real difference is that we use a reel with a spool diameter that allows us to change the choke guide from the tip top to some intermediary distance between the reel face and the tip top. The closer the choke guide is to the reel face the fewer transition guides are needed and the more running guides will be needed. An added advantage to this set up is we lessen the total weight we add to the finished rod.

Mike Blomme