When I first started thinking about building rods for myself, I knew I'd have things to learn along the way. Well .... I learned one of them about 10 minutes ago. It's something that if I would have really thought about before I did it, I would have known it wasn't a good thing to do. In my own defense, other than metallic trim bands, I had only ever wrapped with black thread, so I had no reason to wet a wrap to see how much the thread color would change.

I bought three different color threads and did tests wraps of each color and wetting each of them with DA as I has been suggested in many posts on this site. It worked beautifully, but I was torn between two of the colors, so I decided to wrap three of the guides on the rod so I could wet them and see how they looked on the rod. The only problem with that was ..... the guide frames for this rod are black, and after prepping the guide feet I colored the ground area with black magic marker.

When you put a guide frame touched up with black magic marker under a silver smoke colored thread and add denatured alcohol, guess what happens? LOL Yep. The alcohol makes the magic marker come off and puts a blackened area in your light colored wrap. Needless to say, the next time I try such a thing I'll use good old tap water.

Knowing that thread finish isn't a solvent, it shouldn't cause a similar problem, but I'll ask just to be sure.

Finish won't cause this same thing to happen, will it? I've touched up guide feet the same way before, but as I said earlier, I was using black thread. If finish had an affect on the magic marker touch up, it wasn't evident. I know I could actually do a test to see if it will, but I hate the thought of mixing up a batch of finish when I would only be testing it on one guide.

To head off a suggestion of using CP to seal everything before applying finish. When I did my test wraps I did one with CP and one without, for each of the different color threads. The CP dulled the sheen of the thread, which is something I don't want on this particular rod. All of my trim rings and winding checks are titanium colored and I want the thread to have a sheen as well.

I'd appreciate any input you guys can give.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2015 12:39PM by David Baylor.

Hi David,

Epoxy finish won't, or at least I've never had Flexcoat or Thread master dissolve perm marker off of a guide foot. Permagloss, on the others hand, will.

Take care,

Chris

Epoxy will not effect the marker coloring.

I take it the thread is Regular nylon If so it will need CP to keep the color of the thread coats It will get dull looking when dry but the color will be there when finish is applied
If you don't use CP the thread will get darker and become transparent and you will see the guide feet

But Regular Nylon looks a lot better then NCP thread which has a flat look to it

Bill - willierods.com

Chris and Phil, thank you both very much for your responses. They are very much appreciated, and are exactly what I was hoping to hear. Once again, thank you.

Bill, thank you for your response as well. It too is very much appreciated. And yes, the thread is regular nylon. And from reading past posts about the effect finish has on thread that isn't sealed with CP, I knew to expect a color change. It was actually something I was counting on. Other than wanting to see just how much of a color change to expect, one of the reasons I did my initial test wraps, one with CP and one without, was because of what I'd read in past posts about the effect CP has on the sheen of regular nylon thread. I wanted to see just how much it dulled the threads appearance. It definitely dulled the sheen.

I've yet to actually put finish on a wrap that has been treated with CP, so the sheen may come back somewhat once finish is applied. But even if it did, my eye tells me it probably wouldn't have the same sheen as none treated thread. I like that sheen. I think it adds depth to the wrap.

I'd like to ask you a question pertaining to what you said about light colored thread becoming transparent when finish is applied. I've read the same cautionary statement in past posts. The thread color I plan on using is a Pro Wrap regular nylon, 822 Silver Smoke. When I put DA on it, it darkened up as expected, but didn't show any change in transparency. Is the transparency something that will only surface once finish is applied, and not when DA or simple tap water are used?

It looks like I may need to test wrap a guide, and put some finish on it, and see the results. I certainly don't want to wrap the whole rod and see guide feet after I apply finish.

General question to the membership. In your experiences, how dark must a thread color be before you'd feel confident that the guide feet wouldn't show through after finish is applied?

And thanks again to all who replied. I truly appreciate it.

David, yes you will see the guide feet showing through the thread if you don't use CP with a light colored thread. Since you have only used black in the past you never would have seen this result.

David, I'm not sure about how dark a thread has to be. I think the only way to be sure is to do an experiment - use paint to get the same color as your blank (on a scrap piece or any cylindrical shape), then do your experiment.

I assure you that regular nylon with CP looks great, lots of sheen and depth. It's the NCP threads that can look somewhat flat relative to regular nylon with or without CP on the NCP thread. It's not awful, but it just doesn't have the depth that regular threads do.

David, I'm not sure about how dark a thread has to be. I think the only way to be sure is to do an experiment - use paint to get the same color as your blank (on a scrap piece or any cylindrical shape), then do your experiment.

I assure you that regular nylon with CP looks great, lots of sheen and depth and the same color as the spool of thread. It's the NCP threads that can look somewhat flat relative to regular nylon with or without CP on the NCP thread. It's not awful, but it just doesn't have the depth that regular threads do.

One thing that should be mentioned here, since you've not used much light colored thread, is that even with CP a light colored thread on a dark blank is challenging. The wrap has to be perfectly packed to prevent the blank color from showing through, and the CP is not totally effective in making the light colors truly opaque. Some builders paint the blank under the wraps to solve the issues. You know that if some go that far, there is an issue. Some use NCP thread but also use CP hoping it will give a greater measure of opacity.

FWIW, many markers contain cholrides which adversly effects stainless steel. You might consider testors paint in a color close to the thread you are using. I can say for sure black guide feet will show through dark purple thread without CP. Another option is to wrap guides first with a metallic thread then regular nylon.....gives kinda a candy apple/silver metallic look.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

In my opinion NCP thread has an undeserved reputation for looking dull.
Yes on the spool it has a flatter look, but that disappears once finish is applied.
I use it for everything except black and even when using white or yellow I don't need to paint regular grey blanks.
Guide feet showing through, I can't swear to. I only use light colors for Tigers and trim wraps.

David, send me an e-mail and I will point you to where you can see a bunch of different rods where thread was used to match blanks and no CP that way you will be able to see the guide feet showing through the wraps. Randy

I must disagree with Garry regarding NCP thread being dull. It is made to be more opaque by adding chalk, this truly dulls the vibrancy of the color! I have many test wraps side by side of regular nyon, with and withour CP along side the same NCP threads, and the NCP is not nearly as vibrant!!! The color is there, but it looks more like paint then the nylon gloss.

Wow !!! A whole bunch of great responses. I hope you all don't mind me using a collective thank you, and very much appreciated as acknowledgement of you all taking the time to help me out. I truly do appreciate it.

I ended up doing a test wrap with an old guide and a spare piece of blank I had lying around, Since I was torn between two colors, I did the test wrap with the darker of the two. I figured if it started to show any transparency, then the lighter color surely would. If anyone is interested, the test wrap was done with Pro Wrap nylon 831 Smoke Screen. It's a light charcoal grey. Without CP and after finish is applied it becomes a deep charcoal grey, with plenty of shine. And it does become semi transparent.

I just didn't realize how much, until after I had actually put it on the wraps on the rod. When I did the test wrap with the guide foot, STUPIDLY, I didn't put on the silver metallic trim band that I was going to be using on the rod, I can see the tag ends of my trim band through the main wrap. Disappointing to say the least.

I don't mind saying that I feel pretty dang foolish that the thought of the possibility of the trim bands showing through, never crossed my mind. Think Dave ... think. Next time you do an experiment, make sure all related materials are included. At least I did my test wraps on the same color blank as the rod.

I should say that when I did the test wrap with the guide foot, I also put finish on the earlier test wraps that I had put CP on. And while it did have the sheen that I spoke of earlier, it wasn't as shiny as the nylon without CP. Another thing I should mention in case other newbies such as myself are reading this is, I did another test wrap, this time with a trim band, and applied CP to it, to see if CP caused any transparency. There is a slight transparency from CP, but no where near what straight finish does.

If anyone is wondering if I went ahead and put finish on the entire rod after seeing that I'd be able to see the tag ends of my trim bands. Yes I did. I could have stopped and and redone the wrap and then put CP on all of them, but as I mentioned in an earlier post .... I was counting on the color change of putting finish on regular nylon thread. Even though CP darkened the color of the thread slightly, if I would have put CP on the thread I wouldn't have been happy with the color. Once I find the right color thread, I'll just re wrap it during the hard water season.

I have another one of the same rods yet to build that I was going to use black thread for the wraps, But I really like the dark charcoal colored wraps with the silver trim band on the gloss black blank. I guess what I'll need to do is order a few more different colors of thread, from another manufacturer, and do some experimenting. Pro Wrap doesn't have a color that would match the deep charcoal grey I've fallen in love with.

BTW .... I don't know if this is the proper place, or even the proper thing to do. I only say it in case as mentioned earlier, there are other newbies reading this thread,

Do not consider the colors shown on the color chart for Pro Wrap regular nylon thread, to be accurate. Because they're not. I ordered three different shades of thread, 822 Silver Smoke, 831 Smoke Screen, and 841 Iron Ore. Even after applying U-40 Color Lock, none of them are close to the colors shown in the color chart.

I plan on sending Pro Wrap an e mail, which I'd imagine they've already gotten many times before, suggesting that they take pictures of actual spools of thread, and use it as their color palette. Similar to what Fish Hawk does. Which is where I'll be searching for thread next. Their 441 Charcoal looks like a color I'd be interested in.

Well I can see I've gone on and on again. Once again, a heart felt thank you to everyone that responded. You've helped me immensely, and I truly appreciate it.

And Russ? I really like the idea of a metallic wrap under a semi transparent nylon wrap. DEFINITELY something I will try in the future. Thank you for putting that seed in my head.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2015 12:22PM by David Baylor.

2 things I would like to suggest
When doing any thread wraps put all starts and pull thoughs at the bottom of the rod As It Is Being Fished This way they are not in your face when you fish it
Also I like taking my rods outside to check colors I beleive that sunlight is better Plus it is going to be fished in the sun So what the hay
Glad it is coming together for ya Good Luck

Bill - willierods.com

Bill, thanks for responding again, and for your suggestions. I really appreciate them.

Your suggestion of putting the starts and pull throughs at the bottom of the rod as it's fished is a good one, and one that I been doing with the two other rods I've built thus far. They were both casting rods. The rod I've been speaking about in this thread is a spinning rod. Not wanting the starts and pull throughs near the guide foot, I put them on the side of the blank. I'll be sure to put them closer to the bottom on this next rod though. Thank you for the suggestion.

And you're definitely right about taking the rod out in sunlight to check colors. Sun light really gives them that pop. Which is why, after taking this recently finished rod out in the sun light, I'll be doing the other rod with the same color thread, and no CP. If I have to, I'll put up with being able to see the trim band tag ends, because It looks gorgeous.

And Bill, it is starting to come together for me. I'm pretty proud of how this rod turned out. It's not perfect by any means. But it really came out very nice. It looks high dollar. And thanks to the KR GPS on the Anglers Resource web site, and some very helpful suggestions from members of this site in a previous thread of mine .... it performs high dollar as well. I can't believe how much better this thing casts than my factory rods. And they're not what I would consider cheap factory rods.

The rod is built on a Quickline blank, and the sensitivity is outstanding. I can't wait to set the hook on a nice chunky smallmouth bass with this sucker. I'll be smiling ear to ear when I do.

A very sincere thank you to everyone that responded to this thread, as well as my many other threads. You guys being so willing to help is why each rod I've built has gotten better and better. Words cannot express my gratitude.

This place rocks !!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2015 09:30AM by David Baylor.

As you build - you will get better

Bill - willierods.com