Trying to assemble a longer casting rod about seven feet and find that with single foot micro size 3 or 4 guides the line is touching the blank between the guides even in a moderate bend with about 10 guides used. I would not like to use many more than that number. How serious is this issue? What might happen if the line is upon the blank when in a moderate bend fighting a fish? The rod is being used for medium sized fish in coastal waters. Mostly sea trout.

Spiral layout. line won't touch the blank if the guides are on the bottom.

Ahmed,
I always used to use that concept as well.
But, if you think about it, the line touching the blank or even going under the blank is not a big deal.
Remember, on the cast, for the most part, the blank is virtually straight. So, during the high speed cast, the line will not touch the blank.
Then, when fishing, although the line may touch the blank or even go under the blank when lifting a fish, most of the time when actually reeling the blank is relaxed a bit which minimizes any large pressure of the line on the blank.


There are huge numbers of micro rods built in a conventional manner with the guides on top of the blank. It seems that for a 7 1 /2 foot rod, that most of these rods use about 14-16 guides. But, suit your self.

the other option if you want to use 10 guides and not have the line touch the blank and not use a spiral wrap, is to use taller casting guides.

Your choice.

Be safe

Are you opposed to using a few more micro guides? The weight will be so negligable to notice any difference in weight, and you gain performance value as well.

R. McBride

Batson Enterprises
BatsonEnterprises.com | RainShadowRodBlanks.com | ALPSForeCast.com | Build2Fish.com

With the spiral wrap you will have maybe 8 - 9 guides A lighter rod Less guides finish thread A rod that is stable to use And not hard to set up No twist of the tip when the guides try to turn over to the 180 or bottom of the rod

Bill - willierods.com

Bill,
Spiral wraps have all of the advantages that you mention.
However, there are many fishermen - who have particular fishing styles where they really prefer to have the guides on top of the blank.

But, the different ways to build rods all work fine.

what ever you do don't let the line hit the rod like you said , it will cause problems over time , I think

William Sidney
AK

William,
Why do you think that it will cause an issue?

Ahmed,

The line touching the blank will be fine. When I static test a rod with 4mm and smaller guides, I allow the line to just touch the blank between each pair of guides and use however many guides it takes to get the butt guide to a reasonable place on the rod. For the fish you are fishing for, they aren't likely to make extended high speed runs, so there is no real need to worry about friction.

If you still aren't comfortable, chuck the blank up in a drill or power wrapper and hold a piece of line on it while it's spinning, like you are cutting a piece of EVA. See how much effort it takes to get the line to fail, and whether you cause any damage to the blank. You can use a scrap section of blank if you prefer.

Factory rods have been produced for years with the line touching and dropping below the blank. None of them blow up because of this. Granted, they may be lacking a bit in terms of performance, but they still work.

Keeping the line off of the blank can be useful in certain scenarios, but they will generally involve big game type rods. The purpose of keeping the line off of the blank before micros came along was to make sure you had enough guides to distribute the load well, and to move more line on the hooks than a rod with a poorer choice in guide train. If you set up the rod with traditional 6mm guide and then swap them out with 3's, the load gets distributed just the same. The line path just doesn't look aesthetically pleasing in the least, but the rod will still work. Adding in more micro guides will allow you to match the natural curve of the blank a little better resulting in slightly more line being moved on the hook set and distribute the load even more.

I'm not a fan of the line dropping below the blank. So, use enough guides to get the job done, but don't go hog wild just for the sake of keeping the line off the blank. As a rule of thumb, for traditional sized guides, I end up with L in feet + 1 guide. For micros, I end up with L in feet +2 guides. A graphite crankbait blank that loads deeply can be the exception to the rule. 10-12 guides on that type of blank is certainly within reason.

If you need more food for though, search the forum (all dates) for Micro Maniacs or M & M's threads. They date back to the days just after Steve Gardner opened many eyes with the use of micro guides.

Joe

line touching the blank over time it will wear the rode an if it is POWER PROW or like it , it will be worse , I don't want it,
an do my best to not let it happen

William Sidney
AK

I'm pretty new to all of this, but just from a mechanical standpoint, I wouldn't think the line going below the blank on a casting rod would be a good thing. Especially near the tip where the diameter of the blank and the wall thickness of the blank are smaller.

The line dropping below the blank is going to cause the tip to bend more severely and cause a condition similar to high sticking a rod.

No big deal on an Ugly Stik ...... but on a high modulus rod? Ouch !!!

Roger

Only he can figure that out Personal preference Take the rod outside and play fish with it to see how he likes it

Bill - willierods.com

What power or lure and line weight is the blank rated for? For me if it is a heavier action rod, I wouldn't mess with the tiny guides. Is weight a concern?

Ahmed,
The simplest solution to avoid having the line touch the reel and to avoid adding extra guides, is to do as Randy suggested - use taller guides.

I think that it is about a toss whether you use micro guides and 4 or 5 more guides to keep the line off the blank, or to use 4 or 5 fewer guides that are a bit taller.

The size of the guide is not the issue. The issue is the height of the guides. So, if you want quick line control, then use smaller guides, that are a bit taller and your problem is resolved.

I rather expect that if you weigh 6 conventional sized casting running guides compared to 10 smaller shorter micro guides, you will not see much weight difference if any. Also, the 6 larger guides will take much less time to wrap than the 10 smaller guides.

But, all setups work. Just build the setup that YOU and your client, if wrapping for a client desire.

Be safe

If you have an extra fast blank, and wish to use micros, I expect that you will need to have them spaced at about 2-3 inches to keep the line off of the blank.

Conversely, if you use a taller guide, then you can use a spacing of 3-4 inches on the same blank and keep the line off the blank. So, for extra fast blanks on a 7 1/2 foot rod and you want to wrap the blank in a conventional manner and wish to keep the line off of the blank at all times, I expect that you will need to add 4-6 more micro guides compared to using taller guides.


So,
A. if you want to keep the line from touching the blank.
B. if you want to wrap the casting rod with the guides on top of the blank in a conventional manner, you need to add enough guides that you are building with; to keep the line from touching or going under the blank when the rod blank is fully loaded.

It just depends on what a person wants or needs in a rod build. If it doesn't bother you that the line touches or goes under the blank, then you can use exactly the same number of micros to build a conventionally wrapped casting rod, as with taller conventional casting running guides. But, if you want to keep the line off the blank and or keep it from going under the blank, you will need to add as many micro guides as it takes. I have seen as many as 10-12 micro guides on an extra fast casting rod where the builder wanted to be sure that the line did not touch or go under a 7 foot extra fast rod blank.

Don't say, that you should build as a spiral wrapped rod, because the clients do not want a spiral wrapped rod.