What are your opinions on adding additives to finishes? I have done it in the past, adding acetone to flexcoat. I observed that the finish had small cracks after using the rod a few times. It might have been my fault I always use as little finish as possible ,perhaps not allpying enough to cover sufficently?Are there is the long term effects such as yellowing or brittleness of the wrapping compared to not using additives?

The people who actually formulate and make the epoxies do not recommend it. They can indeed cause the very things you mention above.

...............

As rodbuilders, it's in our nature to tinker with things to try to make them better suit our needs. Altering the chemistry of epoxy finishes is not one of the things most of us should attempt to do. And probably most of the people that feel they need to thin their finish don't really need to either.

When I demonstrate finishing to people in one of my rodbuilding classes, inevitably someone will ask what's the best finish or what finish do I use? My answer is not what most people want to hear because they want a magic bullet, the perfect finish and there is none. I tell people the best finish is the one you learn how to apply that gives you the results you want.

If someone has built a few rods and they are happy with the results they are getting then I tell them stick with whatever they are using and don't change because someone else uses or recommends something "better". If someone is not getting the kind of results they want, then there's a checklist of things to review first before trying something like adding acetone.

Are they correctly measuring and dispensing adequate amounts of resin and hardener? Are they mixing the epoxy completely? (many people do not) Are they taking steps to assure necessary pot life and fast application of the epoxy? How are they transferring the epoxy from the pot to the thread? Are they allowing the epoxy to self level? How are they eliminating bubbles in the finish once applied to the thread and does this bubble elimination method cause new problems? I haven't seen an epoxy finishing problem yet that can't be solved by considering one or more of the above mentioned aspects of finishing.

And not to steer too far from the original post on acetone. The Flex coat people can certainly correct me if I am wrong, but I think it's fair to say that their position on acetone use is that it's use is not recommended or necessary, but their product is compatible with acetone in very small amounts.

But just to reiterate, I've never found a situation where I wanted or needed to use acetone or any other thinner with any brand of epoxy rod finish.

I am not jumping on this
You beleve anything you want

Just one question --- what is the difference between a light finish and a high build finish Do companies thin out there high build to get a light ??? And then charge the same for both

Bill - willierods.com

bill boettcher Wrote:
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> I am not jumping on this
> You beleve [sic] anything you want
>
> Just one question --- what is the difference
> between a light finish and a high build finish Do
> companies thin out there high build to get a light
> ??? And then charge the same for both

Bill, I don't believe light epoxies are high build epoxies that are "thinned" with something like acetone. They are different distinct formulations that share similar or the same compounds but probably the ratios of the compounds are adjusted to alter the finish's capability to support it's own weight which translates to the final film thickness. I think the film thickness tends to correlate to the liquid consistency in the pot and on the rod as we apply it. To get a single coat of epoxy finish to be measurably thick once cured, the liquid epoxy must resist running and puddling on the underside of the rod to a greater degree than a "light" finish where the purpose is to build up multiple "measurably thin" layers of finish.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2015 04:15PM by John E Powell.

John

the one reason I thin high build finish is when I started the prices were just about the same for each So I just figured why get the thin I would just make the hight build a light finish and have more finish

I have no idea of how they do it - But there is a post that states adding aditives can cause cracking in the finish - YET so many posts stating there are cracks in there finish and they are not thinning So the logict is the blank flexes But the feet of the guides does not And as finish dries it is said it gets harder So some thing has to give - The finish cracks Not because of thinning - Just the nature of it
Plus it is said All Finishes will yellow
Not to bring up old wounds but when I started to talk of thinning I was told things would happen -- But when I asked What would happen - The posts ended
Yes
You can go too far and make the finish too thin
Now pro coat is to be softer finish - Over time ?? Will it keep curing and get harder Yellowing ???
I started with a Mid- Temp lacquer thinner Puting it on blanks I found it evaporated in a matter of a minute So since finish usually takes 5 - 6 hours to get tack free The thinner is gone Now I us a urethane reducer Mid - temp
Seems to work well

Bill - willierods.com

Anytime I thin a batch, I have only added thinner to the resin, never the hardener. Say you take 3cc's of resin and thin at 33%, which gives you 4cc's of thinned (mixed well) resin. I would then mix this with 3cc's of hardener. I have never had any issues. I like a thin, light initial coat to really saturate, then when cured to a solid, yet tacky state I will add another un-thinned coat which will chemically bond with the first creating a super smooth finish. I generally only do this on very small diameter rods such as ultra light spinning rigs.
Tony

Tony Humphrey Wrote:
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> Anytime I thin a batch, I have only added thinner
> to the resin, never the hardener. Say you take
> 3cc's of resin and thin at 33%, which gives you
> 4cc's of thinned (mixed well) resin. I would then
> mix this with 3cc's of hardener. I have never had
> any issues. I like a thin, light initial coat to
> really saturate, then when cured to a solid, yet
> tacky state I will add another un-thinned coat
> which will chemically bond with the first creating
> a super smooth finish. I generally only do this on
> very small diameter rods such as ultra light
> spinning rigs.
> Tony

Not sure what finish or thinner you are using, But that is WAY beyond what flex coat advises is the maximum amount of acetone their product can tolerate.

John, I don't use flexcoat, and the numbers 3cc, 33%, & 4cc were used to simply to convey the concept.
I don't actually measure the amount, just start plopping drops until it "feels" right. High Tech, right?

Two part means two part. There is one molecule (from one part). Looking to find its match (from other equal part) this is not meant to be changed

I put the two equal parts in the cup - Then add whateverThis way there is two equal parts of the finish Safer that way

Bill - willierods.com

Bill, You said/asked, "Not to bring up old wounds but when I started to talk of thinning I was told things would happen -- But when I asked What would happen - The posts ended"

In a nutshell, strength and moisture resistance will be significantly reduced. Other problems from discoloration to shrinkage are possible but of secondary concerns. Heat is the better way to reduce viscosity. It is far better to heat the blank than to heat the epoxy.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Russ

I have been doing it for years and never had any problems -- Only if I go too far and thin too much
The finish drys the usual time 5 - 6 hours Depending on how warm it is Of course i mix well I do use a mod - drying agent Seems to work in cool temps and hot But when hot I turn on the air and cool it off
When i first started talking of thinning many told me Not Good BUT I had many builders e mailing me telling they were doing it for years and have had no problems

I can not understand why this is such a no no OR is it a secret ?? I have played with some that did not seem to take to it well But i always tested before using

Just like painting a car If in hot humid weather any finish that drys fast will hold musture - Blush But if the finish is slowed down it gives the finish time to Release the musture I have painted cars in very hot weather No Booth When the paint held the musture or blushed I added Retarder which slowed down the dry time and kept it wet longer giving the finish time to Release The Musture

Have you ever tried it

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2015 05:51PM by bill boettcher.

I don't use thinners at all. I decided to test it out one day and ended up with a clumpy jelly like mess in my mixing cup. I have a feeling I may have put a bit to much of the acetone in the mix but if it would do this to the finish I figure it isn't a good thing. So I now work with smaller batches of finish and just mix it up more times to get the job done. I build mostly fly rods which are usually 4 pc. So I will do one batch for two sections of the rod. It usually takes me two coats to get the rod looking the way I want it so thats four small batches. Flex coat doesn't recommend it but I load my finish parts in syringes and mix in two cc batches(1cc of each). I don't have alot of waste this way and I have never had any issues with cracking or finish not holding up.

Try the Mid - Temp lacquer thinner from home depot About 5 drops per CC
I never tried Acetone

Bill - willierods.com

I thought acetone was bad for graphite rod blanks?