I will be doing my first spirole wraps on two trout and landlocked salmon trolling rods will be using
level wind reals on them

do I still need to possibly off set the stripper to deter stacking of some sort,I know its a level wind but is there something I may not be aware of this type of wrap is all new to me.

Thank you all in advance.

Curt

Curt,
You at least want to test out the line retrieve on a semi tight line.

Pull about 100 feet of line off of the reel and while holding modest pressure on the line, reel in the line and see how it stacks on the reel.

If you find that it is stacking on one side of the reel or the other, rotate the stripper guide about 5-10 degrees in either the clockwise direction, or the counter clockwise direction. If the line is stacking badly on one side, you will find that one direction or the other for stripper rotation will minimize or eliminate the line stacking. If you rotate it 5 degrees in a particular direction and find it is better, but not perfect, try rotating it 10 degrees and test again.

I generally find that I need to rotate all of the stripper guides about 10 degrees to get even line stacking.

Good luck

Just to recap...
Let's say you will spiral to the right because the crank handles are on that side and you want to be able to lay the rod down with the bumper guide and the crank facing up.
The level wind will travel a little slower as it pushes against line friction, when it travels to the left. This same line friction will pull on the level wind, so it goes a little faster when it travels to the right.
The end result is the line will tend to pile the line up on the right-hand side of the spool.
If you offset your striper guide slightly to the left, about 5 degrees as Roger suggests, this will counteract this trend, and the line will lay flat on the spool.
I have done a couple of spirals, that are used for casting, and never needed more than about a 5 degrees offset. However, 100 feet is a long cast. fI you will be putting out hundreds of feet of line, you might need more offset...Testing is the only way to tell for sure.

Well if this was a casting rod, 100 feet or so of line is about all you need to check. However, the original poster noted this is a trolling rod and as such it would be prudent to consider a worst case scenario. Even though were talking smaller fish here, the worst case scenario would be a lengthy deployment of line while trolling, snagging up the bottom, not being able to stop (because other trolled lines might sink and snag) and boat traffic that might delay an immediate turn of the boat to free the snag. This could certainly add up to 1/2 the capacity of the reel or more.

When I build a spiral trolling rod for levelwind reels and my customers are targeting Great Lakes Salmon. I need to have even level stacking of the entire reel's line from an empty spool scenario. It sounds like you don't need to go to that extreme, but I would certainly consider more than 100'.

If you are concerned with line piling of spiral rod, NZ style spiral rod can be a choice.
First and second guides are straight and the guides start to rotate from third guide.

One thing we found to help on trolling rods and line leveling is to use a larger butt guide, sz 20 or 25 ring.
You may want to try it and see how it works for you.
A typical layout is something like BUDLG 25, then all BUDLG08 (or 07, or 06 depending on line size and knots to pass).
Slightly higher frame guides like the Alps 2 ft works even better.
Hope this helps,

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
mtnron40@yahoo.com
870-424-3381

Dental rubber bands really help with this part of the mock up. Was a tape guy until finally acquiring some of these a while back.

Now I set the guide train with them, static test and eventually wrap the guides all with the same bands.

Might have used quite a few cuts of tape before this...... haha

I have hundreds of spiral downrigger and diver rods fishing the great lakes, including my whole 30 rod set. I have never seen any levelwind line stack anything but normal. Wire line, copper, leadcore, mono, or braid, it doesn't matter. I use 12 derees, 70 degrees, and 135. Works to either side of the rod. If you keep your first guide (from the reel) out between 21-23' from the levelwind, the line lays like it is supposed to.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2015 08:24PM by Tony Childs.

I use the first four guides for the spiral the first guide is a size 16 and placed in line with the reel as in a conventional casting rod I have not had any stacking problems and I have built a lot of downrigger as well as casting rods and halibut rods with no problem

The problem of line stacking is not just a function of spiraling guides, it's also a function of reel dynamics that can include evenness of spool filling, width of the levelwind opening, drag setting, and the condition and function of the levelwind mechanism itself on any particular reel.

Some reels lay line nice and level no matter if there's a slight incoming line angle to either side. Then there are other reels that certainly favor building line to one side. And just because one reel in a series lays line evenly doesn't mean the next one will, especially when you're working with used reels.

Heavier drag settings, compared to lighter drag settings, on a reel can tend to cause the line to dig into the already spooled line more which leads to the line lagging behind the levelwind. The faster the levelwind travels the spool left to right per foot of line retrieved the worse this effect is. I've worked with some reels that retrieve only 6' of line for one levelwind pass while others retrieve 14' per pass.

Then, you have guys with older reels who spread their levelwind apart to pass knots. This is common practice for guys who run older reels to pull copper lines. The existing levelwinid is just too narrow to pass the haywire copper knot and swivel up onto the reel. Sometimes the spreading is done well balanced to both sides, but many times one side is bent more than the other. Any time you modify a levelwind geometry like this, it's a crapshoot as to how well a levelwind will perform.

Then there are those levelwinds that lean significantly from wear and use. Another variable.

I don't buy that anyone can make a hard and fast rule that if you build "x" method or layout you won't have to consider levelwind stacking. I will agree that most of the time this will not be a significant enough factor that it will become an overriding build concern. Until you actually place the intended reel to be used on the mocked up rod, and simulate a worse case scenario using full drag you just can't know for sure. As a custom builder this should just be one of the many things you check, just like you should check for stress distribution, or test casting.

In a past last year I wrote about a guy I know of who built a rod and didn't think to check for this. He fished half a year with no problem then one day hooked a really big fish that nearly spooled the reel (took it just short of the spool knot). In winding all the line back on the reel under full trolling tension, the line stacking was so severe to one side that the line actually bound on the inside of the reel's crossbars with the fish some 50 feet or so still away from the boat. It was a mess because with this particular reel there was a problem that was not tested for and didn't show up until the combo was pushed to the limit.

Conversely, here's another way to approach it. On some rod/reel combos where the reel has a very forgiving levelwind tolerance, it might actually be desirable to lean the first guide a little into the spiral to straighten the line path coming off the reel.

The actual operation of the mounted reel on the rod, how the rod and reel are used, and the goals of the fisherman should inform the builder as to what can and can't be accomplished, or what limits might be desirable to push.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2015 02:32PM by John E Powell.

I am also doing a spiral wrap for the first time for a customer. I have read everyone's input and this is very informative. The question I have is, the customer is using an Avet MXL reel for the salmon rod, does the first eye need to be a 20 or use the 16 eyes? I have never used an Avet reel and just wanted some input.

Warren, I have no experience with that reel at all.

What is your concern about the sizing of the guide ring, can you elaborate?

John,
I have read a few articles on here and other sites most of them say start with a 16 but if the reel sits high on the rod that you may need to go to a 20 to start out. Since neither one of us has use an Avet, and looking at a picture the customer sent me I will say I would be safe with a 16. I just wanted some imput and I appreciate the response.