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Epoxy Vs. Ferrule Cement
Posted by: mdavis (---.dialsprint.net)
Date: November 08, 2001 12:21PM

I am building my first rod ever and it happens to be cane.
My question is for putting on the ferrules and tip -
Which is better, the epoxy or ferrule cement ?
If epoxy, then the 5 minute or 10 minute kind ?
If epoxy which brand ? Home depot has the Super Glue Brand I believe. Will this work ?
I know with ferrule cement, its easy to heat so you can reposition and fix errors in placement but will it last or hold as good as epoxy ? I believe I can get this at a local archery store.

Thanks to all who respond
mdavis

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Re: Epoxy Vs. Ferrule Cement
Posted by: Kendog (---.choiceone.net)
Date: November 08, 2001 03:24PM

I prefer a quality epoxy with a set-up time of 10+ minutes to allow plenty of time to fuss, straighten, and refuss. The 2 or 5 minute epoxies can set up too fast and create problems.

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Re: Epoxy Vs. Ferrule Cement
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (---.tnt2.winston-salem.nc.da.uu.net)
Date: November 08, 2001 03:27PM

The 5 - minute epoxies are good for mounting tip-tops and most break easily with heat should the top ever need replacing. Other than that, follow the previous advice. Go with a slower cure adhesive for mounting seats, grips, ferrules, etc.

................

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Re: Epoxy Vs. Ferrule Cement
Posted by: Mike Bolt (---.50.55.15.rlgh.grid.net)
Date: November 08, 2001 05:15PM

No problem using slow or fast cure if you have everything lined up and ready to go. If you think that you may have to do some adjusting, go with slow. I normally wait until I have some guides to finish and then use the left over epoxy to install ferrules if I can do them at the same time.

I don't like epoxy for tops other than installing boat rod tops with a tube size of 9 or more. One exception would be stand up rods with smaller tops.

It is very easy to heat the blank up too much while removing a top installed with epoxy.

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Re: Epoxy Vs. Ferrule Cement
Posted by: William (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: November 08, 2001 07:30PM

We've read here before that epoxy rod finish may not have anywhere near the surface adhesion that epoxy adhesive does. I'd be careful about using wrap finish as an adhesive. I'm no expert but I know the stuff ain't the same stuff.

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Re: Epoxy Vs. Ferrule Cement
Posted by: Rich Garbowski (---.voyageur.ca)
Date: November 08, 2001 09:01PM

Throw my two cents in here.
I've used Flex coat high temp. hard stick tip top adhesive with no problems for tip tops. If there is a concern, especially with larger diameter rod tips can go to 5 min. epoxy.

But, even on larger musky and boat rods the bond with the high melt adhesive will hold very strong. I've heard in other than temperate climates where it can get scorching hot it would make sense to use a less heat dependant permanent epoxy.

It's a matter of preference and practicality really. I agree with Mike Bolt for using permanent 5 min. epoxy for roller guides.

Rich
Solyrich Custom Rods.

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Re: Epoxy Vs. Ferrule Cement
Posted by: Mike Bolt (---.50.55.15.rlgh.grid.net)
Date: November 08, 2001 10:31PM

I have never had a problem using any two-part epoxy, either wrap finish or epoxy glue, to join anything that I have done in rod building and repair. Granted, I normally use epoxy glue or paste to join heavy duty rod surfaces and unibutts, but I also have two 30# boat rods of my own that I used wrap finish on because I had some left over that had started to crystalize and didn't want to use for wraps. No use in letting it go to waste.

I have always felt that the prep of the two materials being joined is the most important facet of getting a proper bond.

There are things that can be taken to the extreme. I have enough to worry about without adding surface adhesion to the list :)

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Re: Epoxy Vs. Ferrule Cement
Posted by: Harry Boyd (---.3g.quik.com)
Date: November 09, 2001 11:44PM

mdavis,

Looks like several of us got sidetracked off the cane question.

If you're mounting Nickel silver ferrules on a bamboo rod, I would strongly suggest using an epoxy with more strength than the 5 minute brands. Several makers report success using Accra Glass rifle bedding epoxy (not the fiberglass bedding compound) to mount ferrules. Still others have had good success with golf club shafting epoxy.

If you use stick cement for ferrules, then you simply MUST pin them. Otherwise, you are asking for trouble.

Stick cement, and almost any epoxy is fine for tip tops.

I personally don't use epoxy for ferrules any more. I use a one part polyurethane glue known as "Urethane Bond". It used to be made by Dow Corning, but now someone else makes it. Sorry, but I don't have the contact information.

As others have mentioned, surface preparation is the most critical part of installing ferrules on bamboo rods. There's a good article in the last issue of Rodmaker magazine. Ask Tom Kirkman about out of date issues.

Hope this helps,
Harry

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Urethane Bond
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (---.dialinx.net)
Date: November 10, 2001 08:39AM

Urethane Bond was one of my favorite adhesives during the 1980's. It is flexible, but very strong and bonds very well. Except for the fact that it is not as "slippery" as most epoxies, I used it for everything except grip and seat mounting. Caps, ferrules, hosels, etc. ( I once glued a broken axe shaft - shear break just below the head - back together just to see what would happen - it is still being used to split wood 12 years later.)

Then something happened - the stuff started arriving in stores already set-up in the tube. Dow replaced bad batches with.... more bad batches! In a year it was removed from their inventory.

Very happy to know it is back. Harry, who is supplying it?

................................

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Re: Urethane Bond
Posted by: Harry Boyd (---.3g.quik.com)
Date: November 10, 2001 09:00AM

Tom,

I'm checking into it as we speak. For the past couple of years, I've gotten the Urethane Bond from Ron Cornell
<EASYPOXY@compuserve.com> The cost is $3.75 per tube with a 3 tube minimum order.

Only trouble is, I think that someone other than Ron is supplying it now. I'm checking into it now, and as soon as I know a good name and address, I'll let you know.

Harry

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