A week or so ago I posted here on RBO asking for clarification of Lure Weight determination using the URRS (http://rodbuilding.org/read.php?2,433155). Since I received no responses, I suspect that for most builders, the lure weight ranges designated by blank manufacturers is sufficient for determining rod use, and recalculating is not necessary. Because I normally trim blank lengths, I do find it necessary to recalculate the lure weight range to get a reasonable idea of a rods casting performance.

For those of you that might be using the URRS, may I ask if you find the lure ratings on Table 2 excessive and go beyond what would be regarded as optimal?

I’ve been using the original formula (Table C) from the CCS document from when first published and it’s served me well, although I did revise it a bit. I considered converting over to the URRS to be current assuming I could figure it out (Ha). If my dubious interpretation is correct, the weights indicated seem grossly excessive to me, and significantly higher (x 2 or more) than mfg.’s ratings or the Table C method. I acknowledge the subjectivity of my perception of optimum lure weights, but I’m just not confident at this point of the validity of the indicated lure weights from Table 2 and I’m inclined to err on the side of caution. Can anyone give me some supportive feedback on the URRS designated weights?

Jim, how many rods have you built?

Jim,
I wonder, as Randy asked, why the question?

Be safe

WHY NOT JUST ANSWER HIS QUESTION ??????
Is there some thing wrong with his question ??
I had asked a similal question - Got no answer at all
Just had to do with a CCS lure weight measuring a blank bending at 1/3 of it's leangth which i had gone over on the CCS system as to trimming a blank
this seems to be about the same thing ??

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2015 06:53PM by bill boettcher.

Randolph,
No idea, been building since the mid 70’s. Do you or Roger find my question insolent?

The only thing I can figure is no one has read the thread that knows the answer, hence no answer

apparently there are not many that know.

Jim,
I suppose that I wonder, is that normally I never worry about the lure weight of a rod.

I do worry about the line test, but not the lure weight so much.

In retrospect, you are asking a perfectly reasonable question.

Be safe

Most people who take the magazine do not participate on this forum.

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So you use a UL and go bass fishing ???
All rods fly and cast- spin even surf perform better with the proper weight used -- lure or fly line It is weight

Bill - willierods.com

Roger,
I guess I’m the opposite…I never worry too much about line weight, I use braid.
Unless you alter blank lengths, the manufacturer’s lure weight ranges are usually adequate and probably don’t require too much thought, however, altering blank lengths not only changes some of the blank’s characteristics of power and action, but the lure weight range as well. While trial and error helps determine optimum lure weights, it is of course subjective, so a mathematically derived range can provide a reasonable guideline for blank/rod selection. With the upcoming Expo, I’m sure they’ll be some mystery blanks purchased, so being able to determine blank ratings for Power, Action and Lure Weight would also be beneficial.

I’m not usually overly concerned about lure weight because a lot of the conditions that I fish dictate a rod that is too heavy for the lures I use anyway. There are situations when I can match the rod’s power to the lure and even though I’m pretty familiar with all my rod’s attributes, I still occasionally refer to its specs. The reason I question the URRS table is because I’m having a hard time believing that blank/rod manufacturer’s ratings are less than half of the URRS lure ratings. Tom K’s “outdated” Table C from the orig. CCS publication is comparable to the Mfg’s ratings. Maybe I’m somehow misreading the URRS, and if so, I’m hoping someone can straighten me out.

Bill,
Remember the old saying “Happiness is not being smart enough to know what to worry about” (Ha). Although I do know of some unhappy folks that have broken rods trying to throw 2 or 3 oz. Umbrella Rigs or big swimbaits.

Tom,
I know you have the answer, but I also know you’re covered up with the Expo right now and when the dust settles, maybe you can get back to us. I thought I’d post here on RBO to see if anyone else might share some insight on the URRS issue.

I forwarded an email to Dr. Hanneman in the meantime but he's been very slow to respond lately.

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Like the CCS system states and hanging pennies on a blank for line weight
Could it be so easy to hand weight on a level rod and if it bends 1/3 of the leangth it possible can hold the weight to cast ??
Or if one can not find a blank hang weight on the blank If the line goes father back on the blank Then add to the butt Relevel and check again

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2015 12:58PM by bill boettcher.

No, no black will cast the amount of weight that is required to bend it statically for an amount equal to 1/3rd its length. That amount is for measuring purposes only, not casting weight.


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Bill,
As Tom said, that would only account for static load (dead weight) and wouldn’t take into account the dynamic load when casting. If you have a blank that’s long enough to allow for “adjusting”, you could take a measurement using enough weight (pennies or otherwise) to deflect 1/3 of the length, then calculate using the Table C formula of the CCS to convert the cents to lure weight in ounces, then “adjust” as necessary until you achieve the desired weight range. Transposing the formula would save time, but I can’t help with that.
This is the formula:
1.5 x number of cents – 20 x .0022857 = max lure weight in oz.
.8 x number of cents -20 x .0022857 = min lure weight in oz.
This formula is supposedly obsolete, but I have more confidence in it than the “current” URRS Table of Lure Weights. If/when the URRS table is "validated", it would be easier to use because it gives you Lure Weights in one column, then you just go to the corresponding Cents, ounces or Pounds column to read the amount of weight required to deflect 1/3 of blank length.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2015 02:22PM by jim spooner.

Jim, no, I did not find you question insolent. I was just asking what your experience in building rods was. I have been building rods for 44 years now and took about 10 years sabbatical, so I don't know what URRS, CTS, CS or any of those other things are! Plus I don't really care! I just build rods for the type of fish, water, and style of fishing the customer is going to be doing. If someone wants a 13' noodle rod for 4-8 lb. test line, then that is what I make for them. I make sure that they know that this rod will not perform with lures too heavy or line that much exceeds the rating of the blank. You say you don't worry about line rating because you use braid. Would you use 20# test braid on a rod rated for 8# test? It may cast just fine, but if the drag is not set right and the customer tries to overpower the fish with this blank, it is a disaster in the making.

That’s fine when the blank rating has already been conveniently provided to you by the manufacturer, but as you know, if the blank length is altered, those numbers are no longer valid and need to be recalculated. Also, what would you do if you should find yourself in possession of a “mystery” blank with no specifications…..wouldn’t you need a way to determine its Power, Action and Lure Range?
And yes, I occasionally use 20# test on rods rated for 8# line. It’s a situation where one needs to be aware of the “rule” so that at least you’re “cheating” intelligently. I’ve been fishing a lot longer than I’ve been building rods.
BTW, since I use so many different rods at any given time, it’s advantageous to have numerical ratings (Power, Action, Lure Range) to facilitate rod selection. And, should I lose or break one (due to disastrous loss from wrong line choice-Ha!), the number ratings help me build a replacement comparable to the one lost. It’s practical and pretty easy to do…. certainly not rocket science.

I devised the original lure weight formula which was included in the CCS and knew when I created it that it wasn't going to work beyond a certain range. I need to go back and read over the URRS formula but before I do I want to find out where Dr. Hanneman devised his reasoning behind it.

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Jim, I am 71 years old and started fishing with a telescoping tubular steel rod and a casting reel, I am not even sure if they made spinning reels back then. I then graduated to bamboo, then solid fiberglass, then tubular glass, graphite, boron graphite, and s-glass, -glass graphite composites. I have used everything including cutting a bamboo pole in Vietnam. ( Caught a couple of surf perch with it). I still wouldn't over line a rod whether it is braid or mono or something else. You may know how to perfectly use a rod that is over lined, but will your customer?

I forgot to say that altering the blank will normally void the mfg's warrantee on the blank and the customer should be made aware of this if the rod breaks. I don't know if you are trimming from the tip or butt, but either one can change either the power or action of the rod.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2015 04:37PM by Randolph Ruwe.

if i have a blank that has a listing of say 5 ozs casting weight If i level the butt and hang that weight on the tip
What kind of bend would I expect to get on the tip Any idea Would it varry Of course fast tip mod- fast - moderate tip

I hang so many pennies on a blank and get to know what line to use for a blank -- which is still weight Yet calculated from so many pennies to line weight

Bill - willierods.com