Hi:

Question re: choke guide location. I have a 6'-9" mhx blank with a Penn Conflict reel. The dia of the reel spool at the lip is 46.5mm. Mulyiply x 27 = 1255.5mm. Convert to inches gives 49.4" - call it 49". If I mark the blank at that location from the front of the spool (spool cranked 1/2 way out) it only leaves me with room for about 2 running guides including the choke. Does that sound right? I thought you shold have at least 3-4 running guides.

If I use the GPS method it gives me a location even further up the blank - 68" about past the end of the rod tip.

Am I going something wrong?

Thanks..

Again, the number of running guides you have makes no difference. The length of the rod beyond the choke guide makes no difference. It can be a foot, or it can be 10 feet. Makes no difference. Forget about how close to the rod tip the choke guide is, it makes no difference.

What does make a difference, is the distance from the reel spool to the choke guide. That's where the line control takes place. Anything after that, be it short or long, is just handled by the appropriate amount of running guides needed to handle stress distribution. That's the point of using 27X - to get the right distance from the spool to the choke guide.

For instance - for the same reel and the same handle length, but two rods with one being twice as long as the first, both will have the same choke guide location. The longer one will simply have more running guides beyond the choke. Make sense?

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I think I got it. Just that don't recall seeing a rod with less than 3 run guides. From now
on Ill ignore that and simply place the choke where its calculated to go and let the
chips fall as they may (or shall I say running guides fall as they may).

Thanks for clarifying.

- r

Exactly. The number of running guides will vary depending on rod length. There is no specific number and on some shorter rods with larger reels, the tiptop ends up being the choke guide.

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May I suggest perhaps the reel is too large for the rod? It will change the numbers if you use a smaller reel diameter

But the goal shouldn't be to the change the numbers. It should be to set the guides up to match the reel desired.

There is no such thing as the choke guide being too close or too far from the tip. The choke guide doesn't care where the tip is and rod length is not a factor in the NGC.

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Actually if anything the reel may be too small. The Penn Conflict starts with a 1000 on up to 4000 (and maybe higher). They added a 2500 between 2000 and 3000 which is what I'm using. I think the upsweep on all of them is the same anyway. What I found interesting (frustrating) is that the Fuji GPS site has two tabs for calculating the choke. One is the actual GPS program and the other is the 27x method. Fuji told me the GPS method is the same thing as the edge of table method; just uses some super duper formula. With the 27x I get ~49" for the choke. With the GPS I get ~ 68". Big difference and past the end of the blank.

I think I'm simplyfying my life, not going to worry about the number of running guides, per Tom, and going with 27x from now on. Use the table edge method for initial spacing of the reduction guides only.

- Rob



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2014 09:12PM by Rob Pridgen.

The two different systems aren't supposed to give you the same choker guide location. One is based on spool upsweep the other is based on spool diameter, which is the greater factor.

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Rob, you will never successfully mix NGC and 27X. As Tom said, one is upsweep the other spool diameter. If you table edge the reduction guides it will give you a choke point where the rod crosses the edge of the table. You can't arbitrarily then use the 27X choke position with table edge positioned reducers (what a mess). Penn reels often have little or no upsweep so it doesn't surprise me that your choke is off the rod with GPS. IMO you have the perfect scenario to use 27X. Mixing the two may be the single biggest point of confusion for many builders. This situation is a perfect example of why we show both methods on the GPS software. Some set-ups will work best with 27X, some with GPS/NGC. Pick ONE and apply. PICK ONE. Only ONE. Do not mix. Do not pick and choose various results from both.

Jim, not to belabor the topic much longer but if I am reading this article correctly it suggests using two methods. First use 27x to find the choke, then use table top to fine the reduction guides.

[www.rodbuildingtutorials.com]

I think what you are saying to me is don't use 27x and expect to get same results as GPS. Another words use GPS, ONLY; nothing more. Or use 27x for the choke and then table edge for the reductions.

Please excuse, I may be over thinking all this.

Thanks.

Rob,
I personally solve the problem, by never using the "choke point" for my guide placement.

No choke point calculation, no issue.

I just prefer using other methods for placing guides on a blank.

Be safe