Curious. Recently looking at Fuji's news guides and notice that they recommend only as small as size 4 and not 3. Curious why? Some micro guide users get even smaller than size 3 at times. Size 4 is really not that small - curious why. I did notice in the past that their size 3 SICs are not finished nearly as well as the larger sizes but hope this is not the reason why...

Anyways, wondering if anyone knows why it is now down to only a size 4.

Thanks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2014 11:14AM by Mo Yang.

It could be that they feel that going smaller is only getting you into a state of diminished returns for the weight involved against the ability to provide a bit more versatility in lines and use. But that's just a guess on my part.

.................

Mo in testing done six plus years ago I found 3 and 3.5 to out perform 4 mm guides and 2 mm guides to out perform the others
If l remember correctly Fuji did some testing (I know not what) and said they found no performance advantages in guides smaller then 4 mm.

Spent almost a year testing micros before publishing any results and am convinced the results are accurate

here is link to of the one of the posted tests.
[rodbuilding.org]

Could be its easier and more cost effective to convince people to use one size, rather then to build the equipment for constructing all sizes also requires housing a lot less inventory. But that's just a guess on my part



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2014 12:30PM by Steve Gardner.

Mo,
Reducing guide sizes is a lot like going up in blank quality, or obtaining less weight in a blank.

It is easy to gain a lot by making a small change from a larger blank to a reasonably small blank.

For example, going from a size 8 to a size 4 guide.

But, the difference in gains, if any when one goes from 4 to 3 is much less, and if going from a 3 to a 2 is even less. It is simply the point of diminishing returns.

Also, if one is building a conventional casting rod, one goes from 9 guides for size 4 guides and goes up to 12 or 14 guides for a size 2 guide, I doubt very much if there is any weight savings at all.

Be safe

Roger; Why would you go up to 14 guides when 2's if using 9 with 4's?

Thanks everyone.

I'm coming from the philosophy of not looking at specific gains by going from one size to the next. Rather, my approach is to press the envelope and push for every tiny advantage possible with the belief that dozens of tiny little gains, each imperceptible by itself, does add up to a perceptible difference. So I go overboard.

As to 4 vs 3, it is not just weight. It is also aerodynamic drag. Considering that I am building ultralight casting 1/32 oz or less at times using 2 lbs line, these tiny differences are a bit more perceptible than if one was casting 10 lb fluoro for bass. UL blanks can be incredibly sensitive to even small changes in terms of oscillation and feel.

I did wonder if the size 3 were just going to require too expensive an equipment to finish properly up to the standards of the other Fuji SICs. I see that they now have 'Torzite' or something like that but only down to size 4.

Mo

Tom's about right. It's a Weight vs Performance issue plugged into a global market. The pendulum went all the way over to size 2 for a little while, then started back. The size 5 appears to be a nice compromise for the those unwilling to swallow the complete micro pill and it appears it may emerge as the leader when all the dust settles.

There have been positions taken on the forum before that the smaller guides are more sensitive to icing, lake weeds, cottonwood, water fleas, etc. Also, the smaller the guide the less likely it is that it will pass knots, if you use knots.

And thus the danger of simply using "micro guides" without any consideration of the task at hand. The best guide size always turns out to be whatever the proper guide size is.

....................

So, what alternatives are there for size 3 titanium frame SIC rings that are lightly built given that I am building for 2 and 4 lbs test so there is not a lot of stress on the guides.

Thanks!

Mo,
Use Pac Bay minima guides in size 3. A fraction of the cost and lighter as well.

Be safe

I have used the minimas and really like them for the cost and light weight.

But for times when I want to go go overkill.....:), I do use titanium SICs...

It is my opinion that SIC for light and medium duty freshwater rods is not necessary for proper performance. I have never grooved even the cheapest guides on my old factory rods, some of which have a lot of experience and which have grooved tiptops. I use SIC tiptops because the tiptop is where the demands are the highest. I thnk the next step down from SIC, alconite for Fuji, will last forever on the rods mentioned above. Alconite titanium guides are a really sweet spot in terms of performance/cost.