One - what tip do folks typically use with size 4 running guides on a light spinning build? Two - what size KL-H stripper do you need if you are using 10lb mono?

LGAT Tip

20-25mm stripper

An LG4 top and size KL-H16 stripper (followed by an 8H and 5.5M to a KB5..then KT5's to the top)

Jim, I'm pleased you replied - you seem to be the guru on this stuff. So a 16 is big enough for 10lb mono? When I use the GPS software on the Anglers Resource site, calculating for a 2500 series Shimano (I'll be using a Symetre), I came out with a KL-H 20, but I'll go back and run it again. I have several rods built to use braid that use a BYAG 16, so I'm not worried about the braid, but would like the option of using mono if I want to.

Get a 16 and 20 try them both and take the spool off to locate the chock guide A hight 16 should work well
test cast both

Bill - willierods.com

You might be safer with the 20. Mono is all over the place on stiffness, plus temp sensitive. So, if the 20 falls in a good place, go with it. Latest KR revisions say place the stripper (NGC) then measure to the tip of the rod and place the choke at .45 the distance from the stripper to the tip.

Interesting to see it keeps getting revised. Another thing I notice is that the GPS gives very different numbers based upon what reel you use, even using reels from the same manufacturer and size - i.e. various Shimano 2500 models call for different layouts. The GOOD thing, when it comes to ordering guides, is that it appears to me that I will probably need 20-12-5.5 then running guides. The difference will be in where I place the 20, 12 and 5.5; but it seems those will be the sizes. Given how little difference it makes, I may just go ahead and get a few extra sizes in the KL-H, but I suspect I know what it will end up being.

Marty: We have done pretty extensive work on grouping the KL-H guides. If you'll check the back of the Anglers Resource catalog that came with your RodMaker magazine on page 46-47 you'll see the way the KL-H breaks down into groups. With a 20H you will have much better spacing with the 10H and 5.5M. Should give you a bullseye and quicker line control. The 12H doesn't space properly with the 20 and 5.5. Just a suggestion.

Good to know. Thanks.

I keep seeing that we are now trying to achieve a bullseye. A while back it was that the target was to have the line go from the shaft to the tops of the guides. I argued for through the center and was repeatedly told I was wrong. Not by you, Jim, others. I was combining Y's and V's to get it. Seems like the rodbuilding world has finally caught up. :-) Any comments, Jim?

A straight line across the top of the guides will end up a bullseye. Spacing and position are the key issues. I seem to be having trouble helping people understand this. If I can place three guides on a six inch piece of blank and they form a straight line across the top of the frame or the center of the ring and they are equally spaced in that six inches when they bullseye, I can expand that distance to any length I want and STILL have the bullseye and STILL have good spacing. You can work out a concentric ring, properly spaced reduction train on the kitchen table if you want. You don't even need a blank. The "bullseye" was deduced from the original NGC. Anytime you place guides within the "isosceles traingle" described in the original concept...they will bullseye.

My common sense was telling me and a video I saw that as the line was coming off the spin reel face plat and gravity pulled it down it would rub on the bottom of the ring As in the fishing position
So from that i always made the reel spool line go into the ring even if it was only 1/4 of it and not the center

Bill - willierods.com

I believe the "top-of-frame" recommendation came from the desire to get the line down to the blank as quickly as possible. If they recommended center of ring it would move a stripper OUT. KR Concept seems to have changed some of that early thinking. As I've said, my common sense tells me 1) Reducers can be "grouped". A good group will always be a good group. 2) As the stripper moves, the group moves. Otherwise you lose the bullseye which logically seems a good choice for efficient reduction of the coils. 3) Position of that "group" is of key importance in maximizing not only smooth flow and distance but power for fighting fish as well. 4) Position is influenced mostly by rod characteristics, line choice and reel dynamics (and I'm sure some other things, too, but mostly these things)

The ultimate position may be across the top of the frames....maybe not.

thanks, Jim

Every thing is subject to change That is why rods are test casted to find the best performance
Which ever way works best for you

Bill - willierods.com