G'day Guys,

I know I am a bit behind the times but I am trying to get my head around the KR concept. I think I am nearly there but I have a few questions.

The KR Concept seems to use 4.5 guides as running guides. These may be a bit small for my purposes with regard to knot clearance (12lb braid and 20lb fluoro leader) so can I use a bigger running guide and how will that affect the choke zone?

Also, how do I size my butt guide? Is the 1/2 spool diameter method still valid or does the higher guide height of the KR guides mean a smaller ring is necessary i.e. if the spool diameter is say 50mm, NGC starting point would be a 25 guide but I am guessing that with KR it will probably be a 20. Any thoughts?

Cheers

Jason

The Fuji KR concept is really two concepts, one for micros, one for what your doing.

In your case, I would go with a size 25 tall butt guide and size 6 running guides.
It should work well.

Be safe

The Fuji KR concept is really two concepts, one for micros, one for what your doing. You get to also choose between a two, or three guide reduction to your running guides.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2014 07:55PM by Spencer Phipps.

Like Roger said Get the Two Guide set and use the size runners that clear your knots

Bill - willierods.com

Jason, you've made a good decision and I hope I can make it easier to follow through. First of all, KR Concept is a single updated "concept" based on Fuji's NGC. It's about faster line control using smaller rings in higher frames and it works for any rod. When introduced, Fuji said it was a braid concept and discussed the use of "micro-runners" as part of the system. Since then, Fuji introduced 7 new sizes of KL-H guides and expanded the concept to include runners up to size 6. Now you can build a KR Concept rod that is NOT a micro rod and have all the KR Concept guides you need to accomplish that. Lot's of flexibility but all within a single concept.

Place your stripper as you always have using NGC. Placement will be about the HEIGHT of the guide just as it was in the original concept, but using a KL-H, the height you need will be reached with a smaller ring. Choose a stripper that, using a table edge technique (or GPS) positions itself at 17 to 22 inches. With 12lb braid you can easily get by with a size 16 stripper provided it positions at an appropriate distance from the spool.

In short, build an NGC rod with KL-H guides and you will be 99% there. After that move your choke point toward the reel somewhere between 4 and 6 inches, reposition your reduction guides to bullseye with the new choke and test cast.

I fish mostly 15lb braid with 20lb fluoro leader and have found a size 5 runner to be more than adequate.

Jim, you're trying to "bullseye" the guides which means you're positioning the guides to get the line going down the center of the ring? Interesting in that we had a very long discussion on this forum a few years ago when I was advocating that approach and was being told over and over (not by you) that that was not the right approach, that since gravity was pulling the line toward the rod its "target" to allow for the fall of the line with gravity should be the top of the rings. I put foggy wax on the guides and the line polished the wax off the guides symmetricly, as it would when the line was brushing the guides evenly, not concentrating the brushing on the lower part of the rings. I think your high speed photos show the same thing, right?

By the way, saw my work in your new catalog, nice surprise. thanks.

Michael, I think this is one of those discussions that could go on forever. Line actually falls AWAY from a spinning rod (guides on the bottom). In my opinion everything is moving so fast on a cast that I doubt gravity has much effect until almost all line speed falls away late in the cast.

Fuji has always shown the line across the top of the guide but recently I have seen KR illustrations that shows line through the center. Considering that a slight breeze can move line to ANY side of the ring, I'm not sure such a micro adjustment is going to matter. That said, I opt for the center ring alignment in most cases because I have this perception that it's a good thing to see the line "tickle" the edge of the ring evenly all the way around rather than a steeper angle on top and no touch on the bottom. I always try to reel and watch to make sure this is happening. Having the line rub one side of the ring "harder" than the other seems to be an invitation to "bunching" in that area to me.

Maybe it's the influence of micros or the smaller ring KL-H's but it seems even FUJI is a little uncertain about this issue at the moment. KR CONCEPT states to "place the stripper according to NGC" so whatever they advocated in the past still stands. I start all my builds with strict FUJI rules and work from there. I think (but don't know) the top edge rule may have been an effort to move the stripper a smidgen closer to the reel to get the line down as fast as possible.

I'd be interested in knowing what others do.

By the way Michael, You can "bullseye" across the top of the guide frame. The debate is WHERE that group of guides performs best. Their position is always relative to one another regardless of where they fall on the blank.

G'day Guys,

Thankyou all very much for your input. I know where I am headed now.

Do you think it is necessary to use the KB guides at the choke point or can I just go straight to a KT?

Cheers

Jason

KB, DEFINITELY. I would use 2.

Is there a reason to use the KT guides as opposed to the older L style guides? The Ls look SLIGHTLY lighter in weight to me.

The KT's are tangle-proof like the rest of the K-Series guides. The angle of the ring will match the rest of the guides you are using. That said, there is no reason you can't use the L's if you prefer.

Thanks Jim,

I appreciate your time and advice.

Regards

Jason

Jim,

I noticed on another post you mention your catalogue has some grouping info in the back for KL-H guides. I'm in Australia but was wondering if the catalogue is available as a download?

Regards

Jason