Adam, it seems you may have taken this as a personal attack on your work. If that is the case then I do apologize. I personally never meant it to be an attack on anyone's work. Just food for thought.

BTW: I have looked at the photo page. Your work is well done.

I have a feeling (but no handy data) that the combined cost of a "good" blank and "good" components have steadily increased relative to the cost of a "good" factory rod, and over the past few decades these price increases have much changed the craft of rod building and the market for custom rods. I would not include rod art in this change, for rod art is just that - art - and art has a different clientele and financial basis than fishing tackle.

No, haha! I was more into the sales/biz. dev. side of things than anything personal.

I understand the viewpoint of not holding back your feelings or critiques. Totally fair.


Wanted to add to the topic that I'm surprised how often I hear the type of hook keeper is the reason why a guy likes or dislikes a rod. I guess in the heat of the moment anything can help or hinder an angler in his pursuits.

I guess that I was fortunate in my years of selling rods. Most of my customers would come to me with an idea for a rod that they wanted built for a specific task. Rarely was the artistic side discussed and I am glad. I never was a very good crosswrap guy. I learned weaving just because I enjoyed it and would weave the customer's name on his rod or a weave of a particular fish that he would target with his new rod. Back in the 70's I went to buy some rod building supplies and the owner of the store showed me a set of three rods that he had built. These rods were plain...no fancy wraps but very well built. And I thought at the time how nice those rods looked as a set.
I hope to someday build myself a set of rods for the type of fishing that I do and make them plain without any fancy wraps. One rod will be for casting tops, another for soft plastic and spoons, and finally one for live bait. No more trying to decide which rods I should take out of my rod rack, just take the set and go. Whether they will cost me more than the store bought ones or not makes no difference. I like to catch fish on the rods that I build and hang the cost.

I think this topic has been very interesting, but I think it has gone in a couple directions, and not everyone recognizes that. First, you don't have to do any special work on aesthetics if your desire is to build the best fishing rods for function. After all, the main reason for custom building is to build a better rod for fishing. Some consider simpler to be better aesthetically. If you are a builder who makes your living building rods, and you can do it with just function, that's fine and very commendable, because I expect the challenge is greater for you than for others who also add aesthetic features. I say that because I believe that all functional aspects being equal, and all finish details being equal, the rod with the special aesthetics, for most rod buyers, will be easier to sell. I said most, not all. I don't think anyone responding to this topic intended to minimize the value of anyone's rods. Some were talking about just fishing while some were talking about marketing and fishing.

Billy Vivona Wrote:
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> Who spends 12 hours on grips and wraps?


Lol me, on wraps anyway (including design, layout, execution and finishing. But that's only 'cause I am getting to be an old fart with hands of stone and bad eyes. Billy, find someone who wears trifocals and ask to borrow their glasses. Try to lay down a thread in the correct place when you see three of everything...

I'm fortunate in that my job still allows me to spend over 80 days a year on the water. At one time, I fished over 140 days a year. Many of those days are either fishing professional level tournaments or pre-scouting for them. Over the past 35 years or so, I've placed in 60+ tournaments, 12 of which were first place divisional wins and 3 overall 1st place wins. I'm on a first name basis with some of the very best full-time pros in my fishery and chat with them on a regular basis. Two or three times a year, I present technique specific fishing seminars both individually or as part of a small panel of pros. I share this with you to explain that I consider myself, first and foremost, to be an expert fisherman in my fishery. These experiences, and knowledge of my fishery, is what allows me to build better rods than what any MFGs build. I don't try to be a jack of all trades, I do one thing and I'm confident that I do it very well.

I also consider myself fortunate in that my fishery is a specialty segment of the broader market. Because of this, the big MFGs don't give rods for my fishery much in the way of R+D love. The crap they build falls apart in a few years because it is under-built for the task; most MFGs are content with rotating blank and thread color combinations and presenting the same tired designs and concepts from twenty years ago as their latest and greatest offerings. This makes my job easy when I give a seminar. Most of what I hear from people at these seminars is "I wish i had a rod that could do [this or that]", and I listen and nod my head, then hand them a rod from my seminar show and tell gear that does just what they are looking for. This market segment neglect from the big MFGs makes for easy custom rod sales for me based solely on rod functionality and durability (with very little artwork or "bling" necessary).

I only build what I know very well. I don't have a deep working knowledge what it takes to make a truly great fly rod, so I won't attempt to build one for a customer. I have no clue what a shaky head is or how it's fished, so I wouldn't even know where to start on something like that. When I was younger and heartier, I used to drift fish the Niagara River all winter dodging ice flows chasing steelhead/rainbows/lakers/browns but I stopped building rods for that when I stopped fishing the river; I knew the techniques for that fishery had evolved beyond my experience and knowledge. I'm even reluctant to build walleye trolling rods anymore despite successfully chartering for them in the past and the methods and techniques are "fairly similar" to how I fish now.

It's not my intention to suggest that people should only build rods for techniques and methods they are experts in, I'm just letting you know what has worked for me over the years. I'm truly envious of some of the full time builders that can stay abreast of multiple fisheries and the latest trends and techniques in each of them. My hat is off to you! My suggestion to the rest of us mere mortals is to find a niche in your local fishery that is not being served well by the big MFG and do your best to expand into it. Once you find it, do what you do best whether it be artistry, technique functionality or a healthy dose of both. It's much easier to be successful when you have few or no peers in your fishery that can compete against you. If the big MFG can compete against what you build, you've already lost the battle.

"Truly great fly rod". Okay, I'll bite. What makes some fly rod blanks worth the prices they ask? Some names seem so out of line that it screams status buy to me. Yet they sell. Is it fair to say that the difference between a great fly rod and an adequate one is far bigger than for any other type of rod? I mean I'd be hard pressed to say any rod is worth twice or three times what a st. croix 5 or rx 8 is. Clearly I'm not a fly rod expert:)

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Russell Brunt Wrote:
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> "Truly great fly rod". Okay, I'll bite.

Russell, you changed the context of what I wrote, I was referring to a truly great custom fly rod not a mass produced one.

I suspect the difference between a fine fishing rod and a truly great fishing rod is emotional, not physical. Rod manufacturers are aware of these different needs as their marketing claims reveal:
"soulful action" "smooth casting" "delicate presentation" and so forth, none of which claims can be objectively measured. The good news for rod builders is customers seeking emotional satisfaction from a fishing rod are willing to pay a whole lot more to achieve such satisfaction. This explains the phenomenon of manufactured fly rods with a list price over a thousand dollars.

get me the number of the guy that buys that rod
Got a bridge to sell him LOL

Bill - willierods.com

You can certainly sell satisfaction to some people.

I recall a friend telling me one shade of chocolate brown on his antique packard cost $3200 and another shade (i couldn't tell the difference) was $5600. He got the $5600 paint job simply because he knew he would never have been satisfied knowing he got the cheaper color paint. The reverential way he talked about his car and paint makes me think that if there was a color of brown that cost $15,000 he would have got that.

He was anxious to get what he considered the best and in his mind more money = the best.

I had a guy call me for a rod gave him a price he call me Cheap I told him I can put a $5.00 seat on or a $60.00 --- Should have asked him about that bridge LOL

Bill - willierods.com