hi guys just after a little help with gps. I have either used the microwave guides or ngc on previous builds but thought I would try gps to see the differences. For this build I want to use Fuji Titanium sic guides as this is my own rod and I really want to try these guides. Problem is they are a bit expensive and I don't have the money to order every size and see what I use. this rod is a 7ft St Croix and will be using a stratic ci4. When I put in the information I get the the various sizes and positions and I understand I choose a few of these but which ones. I think I will be using the size 20 Stripper but from there am a bit confused, if some one could help explain that would be great. cheers

CKR

Chris,

One of the best things you can do is invest in a set of reduction guides in various frame styles and sizes. Keep these on hand for experimenting. After you build a number of rods, you'll have a good idea of which sizes you use most. If you buy steel frames with aluminum oxide or alconite inserts, the investment won't be too much. This way, you always have guides on hand and can check out various setups and do some test casting. When you are happy, you can then order just the more expensive guides you need with Ti frames or coatings. I keep on hand older V style frames, Y frames and tall match frames. I need to add a set of either Fuji Ks or Kigan Zs to round out the collection a bit more.

Joe

Understand good idea thanks for that

Chris:
1) Enter reel measurements or chose a reel from the library
2) Click calculate
3) Choose a guide frame (say KL)
4) Guides will slide onto the blank in proper position with readouts on where they fall (in mm)
5) To see the positions in chart form (with inch readouts) which is easier to work with click "View Data Here" at the bottom of the workspace. PRINT THIS if you can.
6) From the list choose a stripper that falls at 19 to 22 inches...yes 18 might be OK and 23 could work but usually 19 to 22 will be a good start
7) Study the size/position relationships in the chart and complete the train. For example, if the stripper falls at 20, you will want the next guide maybe 7 to 9 inches further out. Choose the guide that falls between 27 and 29 inches...and so on

GPS provides a choke point readout as well so it's a fairly simple thing to choose a group that spaces properly between the stripper and the choke...all the positions are right there for you in the chart.

The guide SIZES will take care of themselves, all you need to do is worry about spacing and choose the guide that falls where you need it to fall. (now you know what to order!)

Generally speaking, tweaking the performance will start with the choke point. GPS does and excellent job of locating strippers so work with the CHOKE POINT FIRST when fine tuning and remember, any choke point move will change the position of EVERY reduction guide except the stripper. Look for the "bullseye". Sometimes a choke point move of 1/4 inch will make a notable difference in performance, don't overdo it.

And REMEMBER: Consider rod bend characteristics, line weight and line type in you selections. Heavier mono, for example, would dictate a larger stripper to start things off so you would build the reduction train starting with a 25 instead of a 20 stripper.

Hope this helps you and maybe others that haven't visited GPS for a while.

G'Day Chris I have something similar to Joe I have a few sets of cheap guides that I use for the initial set-up. Once the number & size of guides is determined I then place my order with a couple of extra running guides or 1 of the larger guides which only adds a few extra dollars to the overall cost .Eventually you will finish up with enough guides to construct a rod without needing to purchase any

Regards Baz

Bundeena
NSW Australia

Thanks Jim makes sense now and Baz will be ordering sets of guides to cheers guys appreciate your time

Thanks Jim for the "extra help" on using GPS, much appreciated. Having test guides is obviously the best way to go, but for us hobby builders who build only a few rods a year, also considering the fact that guides are changing so fast that our test guides may soon be obsolete, make that approach impractical. Having a confident way of knowing what to order is very valuable to us.

Jim, in light of your comments above, please check the GPS results for the two Shimano Stradic 4000 models shown at your GPS site and interpret the suggested guide lineup for me. If I'm interpreting it correctly the first guide in the 19-22 in. range are very small guides, like 8 mm. Does this represent flawed measurement data? The Sustain 4000 suggests a 12 at 19.7 inches, still pretty small. What am I missing? thanks,

Michael: When I get results like the ones you describe (yes, it happens) I usually tape and test, mostly because I'm curious to see what the read outs are suggesting. In most cases the set ups perform very well, but at these extremes, you run into other issues and need to do a "work around" to upsize the stripper. We have a number of builders who seem quite successful with a 16 stripper and with only a slight "cheat" you can get them in good position on the blank. It's fairly easy to make a mistake measuring a reel and it can have a 3 or 4 inch effect on the choke point. I have designed a very simple solid base jig that has increased the accuracy of my measurements but must admit I have not remeasured all the reels in the library. In the meantime all the info in GPS suggests working with the measurements to create an efficient guide train. Remember, the steeper the angle the less distance the next larger size guide moves on the blank, what I like to call "wiggle room".

This seems like a good time to mention some pretty big changes coming from Fuji on the KR Concept build. I think they have realized that a new concept after so many years can be difficult for many to pick up. I have studied the suggestions extensively and they should go a long way in making a KR Rod easier to build. I still think, however, the more you know the better the finished product can be. Much of the change comes from the new KB guide sizes and 7 new medium and low height KL guides. I believe they have moved KR into a position to actually replace the NGC at some point in the future. Changes include:

1) Reduction train GROUPS: A way to examine your line size, reel size, rod bend characteristics and choose a predetermined three or four guide group that will automatically space themselves properly on the blank (based on height). This concept also takes KR out of the micro and/or braid only category and moves it into the "mainstream".
2) "Old School" stripper placement: Use NGC, it is still valid and has never been beat. Table edge or GPS will do this easily.
3) Choke placement: Measure the distance between NGC stripper and tip, put the choke half way between the two and start working to move it in as much as possible. I am looking now for a "multiplier" based on their info that will give reliable Rapid Choke placement. I think it will probably be about .43. Ex: if the distance between the stripper and the tip is 48 inches, the choke will fall at 20 inches beyond the stripper (48 X .42). Still working on this number.
4) Fill in the Gaps: Position the remaining reduction guides in familiar "bullseye" fashion.

DONE

Thanks, Jim. I appreciate your comments. What I've done is use the "5 steps to a KL build" or whatever you called a posting about 6 months ago that uses the table edge method with KL's. The rod worked out to have only two reduction guides plus the KLH 5 and it works fine. In fact to get rods that will fit into boat installed rod tubes, max height of the stripper at about two inches, I've done two rods with a 25, 12, (Y type guides) then single foot fly guides and they work fine. That's the way it worked out with the table edge method. They were done before I'd ever heard of KL's. thanks again, Mick