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Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: Wayne Hughes (---.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 06, 2013 06:21PM

I have a 8' 6" Lamaglass G1000 Graphite fly rod. It has 3" borken from the tip section. Tip top removed, and placed on the tip of the borken section. Rod in retirement for too many years. For a project, decided to convert to a spinning/casting rod.

First, cut hard rubber butt plate from end of butt. Next, fit donor rod blank up inside butt section, and left enough donor rod to attach a 9" cork handle. I have used the rod for 2 seasons, gear trolling for trout.

Liking the rod with attached handle. I then went to part two of my project. Leave stripping guides on butt section. Remove snake guides from tip section. During removal of the snake guides. I over heated the guide wrap on the snake guide located nearest the tip top. This equates to another 6" of lost tip section, in addition to the 3" lost years ago. I no longer have the 3" section of rod. I do have the 6" section.

My first reaction was "Oh Crap!" My second was, how can I take advantage of this blunder?

A) Repair the 6" of broken rod. Using the technique illustrated on this site.
B) Repair the tip section, using the protion of a donor rod. Having similar action characteristics. Taking into consideration, the diameter at the break of my fly rod, and the fact I could regain the original 3" of tip loss.
C) Since adding 10 inches of cork handle. That is added to the net length of the buttt section. The net loss of the tip section (3" + 6") is 9". The tip section is roughly 18" shorter than the butt (9" of breakage + 9" added cork handle = 18"). What if I converted the exisint tip section to a two piece?

I am not that enthused about A. that being the least benefit for the effort. B) is very enterainable but does leave the lump at the repair area. C) leaves a lump, But is from reinforcing wraps, and epoxy. Added to the female ferrel end of 3rd rod section. This second ferell, matches the existing male/female end ferrel configuration.

If I attemp C. How do I check for ferrel fit? How is proper overlap determined? Do I need reinforcement of the male end of the new ferrel (now the top of the 2nd rod section). By adding a fiberglass plug. Like if doing a rod break repair? (At the point where the femal end of the ferrel creates leverage on the male section when loading the rod.)

In all honesty, several days have passed during my attempt's to log on and post a similar topic. Then find my previous post had been deleted. During this time I took the liberty to fit a third section to my original tip section. It seems to be a decent fit. But no idea how to test that

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Re: Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: February 06, 2013 08:59PM

Wayne,
Pretty simple.
Find another blank that has similar characteristics to the original blank - with respect to action and length.

Trim the butt of the replacement blank to have a nice fit on the rest of the rod.

Move the components to the new blank section and you are good to go.

With two breaks in the tip, I wouldn't do any more with that tip section.

With either 3,6 or 18 inches off the tip, I wouldn't use the rod without restoring the original length and action.

Of course the final option is to get a chop saw and saw the rod into a dozen pieces and let the garbage man have it. Maybe it has served its purpose.

Take care
REW

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Re: Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: bill boettcher (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: February 06, 2013 09:10PM

Maybe just go to WalMart and pull a rod off the shelf
Or
Like said build another that one is Toast

Bill - willierods.com

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Re: Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: Wayne Hughes (---.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 06, 2013 09:36PM

Roger, thank you for the reply,. Your thoughts are well received. After searching for a total replacement tip section. I do not have a tip section to replace existing length, action, or length.

I am left with a suitable replacement tip section, added to the broken tip section. Realizing this is a waste of time to most.

What is the minimum, and maximum overlap of the new tip section to the old tip section? There is 1 1/2" to 1 3/4" at present. I can shorten the female end for less overlap. The original tip to butt section has 2", if that is taken into play.

How do I check for a good male to female fit of the new ferrel? (cement it on)

Would you reinforce the overlap area, of the male end of the new ferrel, to guard against the leverage of the new tip section?

With no raps on the new tip section, or old. With the two sections mated together. It wil take a load to 90 degrees, in all directions. The overall lenght of the two tips mated together, are within 1/2" of the butt section length.

Thanks again for any replies.

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Re: Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: Wayne Hughes (---.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 06, 2013 10:40PM

bill boettcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe just go to WalMart and pull a rod off the
> shelf
> Or
> Like said build another that one is Toast


Bill, are saying Wallmart is a good place to find a suitable tip section for my project ? Because, I am pretty certain just pulling "any" rod off the shelf. Is not going fit my butt section.

Or are you stating "Wallmart" sell Lamiglass or comparable qualtiy to Lamiglass rods?

Would youv elaborate on why this tip section is "toast"?

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Re: Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: bill boettcher (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: February 07, 2013 08:29AM

You sound like you are putting too much work into that rod And like said take off what you can use from it and just get another blank
keep the sections around and maybe later you can use for some thing else

Bill - willierods.com

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Re: Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: Chris Herrera (---.sub-174-233-196.myvzw.com)
Date: February 07, 2013 08:35AM

Wayne,

I've done a couple repairs like you are contemplating. The 1 3/4" overlap should be ok.

First, put your new tip section on, with the standard 1/4 twist to seat it. Then, shake the blank side to side, to see if the male half is loose in the new tip (if real loose, the male half will rattle against the inside of the new tip).

If the new tip appears to fit fine, mark how far down it goes on the male section, then remove it, and plug the male end with rod bond, or similar material. Let set, then lightly sand the top edge of the male end to take off the edge. Then use rod bond again to attach the new tip. After the bond is set, do a wrap over the female half, preferably with a guide there.

Replace all the guides, finish, and fish the heck out of it!

It is great practice to engineer these types of repairs, and if you resurrect a broken rod in the process, that's a bonus!

Chris



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2013 08:44AM by Chris Herrera.

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Re: Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: Wayne Hughes (---.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 07, 2013 09:18PM

bill boettcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You sound like you are putting too much work into
> that rod And like said take off what you can use
> from it and just get another blank
> keep the sections around and maybe later you can
> use for some thing else


Yes, your probably wright. But this is a project, something to test my ability, and expand on my repair skills (shrug). I need guidence, from experienced individuals.

Chris Herrera, your da man. Wiggled the rod, roted 90 degrees, wiggled again. Untill completing a full revolution. I get a very slight tap at two oposing posistion. And two positions I don't. Is that something rod glue would solve? If real bad how would that be solved?

Secondly, How do I fill, just the overlaping area of the male ferrel end? Before cementing the two pieces together?. I mean, how do I know how much of the rod I have filled, somehow pre-measure the volume?

Why not fill past the overlap of the ferrel?

Finally, what is used for a clear coat on the rod blank? I thought Krylon fusion.........but??????

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Re: Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: Chris Herrera (---.sub-174-233-194.myvzw.com)
Date: February 08, 2013 04:32AM

Hey Wayne,

If it is clicking, then the taper of the male section is faster than the new tip. Ideally, you would try another piece of blank to find one with the same taper. However, you can try the one you have; just be aware it may eventually fail.

When plugging the male end, clean the inside with a q-tip moistened with alcohol, then push enough rod bond to fill it a half an inch. Putting anymore than that will add additional weight, which is not desired.

Or:

Get a small rubber stopper from the hardware store, one that is tapered, and will fit halfway into the end of the male section. Then, moisten the plug with superglue, and push into the male end until lodged tight. Trim the part sticking out, and you're good.

And, what I use to coat rods when they have been stripped down, is either permagloss applied with a coffee filter or foam brush, or regular rod epoxy finish that you rub onto the blank with your finger (wear gloves). Make sure you prep your blank by first cleaning it with alcohol, then scuffing the surface with fine scotchbrite. And then rotate the rod for a few hours, till dry.

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Re: Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: Wayne Hughes (---.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 08, 2013 09:00PM

Chris, maybe back track just a little. What is the reason for plugging the male end? I thought it was for support or strength, since the broken tip was not originally a male ferrel end.

When wiggling the rod. The clicking, at the 'new ferrel end was intermittent. I placed all three pieces together. placed eylets on the rod. :Placed a reel, and fed line through the eyelets to load the rod, and space the eyelets so the line followed the curvature of the rod when loaded. There is nice parabolic bent to the rod. Same as before adding 18" if length.

Ended up adding 10 eyelets for 6ft of rod tip. One guide ended up on the new ferrel. Wrapped the guides. and ferrel area. Wigled rod for tapping, and that intermittent tap is gone. Can not reproduce a sound at this point.

Now, back to the plug. The area your suggesting to plug. Is way to small a hole for a q-tip. The hole is maybe 1/16".to 3/32". Defenitely less than 1/8".

Plus, unlike the plugged end of the original ferrel, This tip section, connects to the male end of the butt section. Which has the cork handle attached. So, that male ferrel is pluged to keep water out?

The tip secton we are discussing to be plugged. Is open, at the female ferrel end. Given that scenario, does the male end of the broken section need to be plugged, before cementing the new extenstion piece (18" piece) to the borken tip section?

Also, would you extend the rod wraps past the cemented ferrel section. For support, or to help hide the step created by the cemented ferrel section of rod?

Thanks again. This project does look sweet! Hardly noticeable! Of course the area is 7ft down rod from where the rod is being held. Still, when looking for that spot, it is not evident.

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Re: Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: Chris Herrera (---.sub-174-233-196.myvzw.com)
Date: February 08, 2013 10:59PM

Wayne,

The plug is to provide structural support, to keep the rod from flattening or crushing in on the open end, when the rod is deflected. (At least, that's what I've understood.) However, if u have already glued it up, it sounds like a small enough hole it may be alright not plugged. But, if you haven't glued up yet, I would still plug it.

I would wrap past the glued up section, to hide it.

Also, be careful bending the repair section too much before you have the wraps on; it is not reinforced on the new tip female end, and may split under pressure without the thread wraps.

If the tapping is gone, I wouldn't think about it again.

Just bear in mind, any repair, no matter how well done, can fail. But, it sounds like you are successfully resurrecting this rod!

Chris

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Re: Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: February 08, 2013 11:00PM

Wayne,
If you are going to glue two pieces together, there is really no reason to plug the male end of the joint.

But, if you want, go for it.

Whenever I want to plug the male end of a two or multi piece rod, I simply use a piece of solid glass. I chop off about 4 inches of solid tubing from the 4 foot long solid fiberglass markers that I get from the hardware store.

I just take the 4 inch piece of material and chuck it into the chuck of a variable speed drill. Then, I just hold the end of material against a spinning belt sander until the size of the solid material fits nicely down the end of the male section.

Using the thicker part as a handle, I coat the end of the filler piece with 5 minute epoxy and glue it in place. Then, I just use the abrasive chop saw to chop off the excess material.

The typing takes longer than the doing.

Roger

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Re: Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: Wayne Hughes (---.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 09, 2013 02:56AM

Chris Herrera, thanks so much for the guidance. I was going ahead with the project, minus any helpfull suggestions. That was before you sir, entered into the equation. Thank you for the support.

Roger sir, I totally get what your saying as far as the fiberglass plug. As it just happens, I had cut a tip section form a fiberglass rod. To use as the center portion of a two piece rod repair. In the event that I utilized the 6" tip that broke or adding a tip that established the 9" lost in total.

As it were, the fiberglass section cut for the center, is solid. I suppose because it is so very small in diameter. Anyway, for whatever reason, there is moisture inside the broken tip section. Which, would cause adhesion promlems with the 5 minute epoxy? Would that need to be dry before epoxy is applied?

Secondly, is it wize, for support. To extend the solid fiberglass plug, past the point where the male and female ends overlap? Right now, the female portion of the tip section, overlaps the male by 1 5/8". My fear is, if failure occurs it will be on the male end, at or just beyond the 1 5/8" female overlap.

My thought is to use the plug for reinforcement. But no idea how long to make the plug. If using it to do so. I do not want to make it too long. I think I will have 3", and possably up to 4" of useable plug. Almost 3/4" sticks out the end, and will need cutting.

Would 4" to 5"be to much? I don't want to create a flat spot in the rod. Adding to much, I fear, might do that.

Chris, Roger what say you?

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Re: Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: Chris Herrera (---.sub-174-255-162.myvzw.com)
Date: February 09, 2013 03:57AM

Wayne,

You are welcome.

As for putting a larger plug, I would be concerned about making that section too much stiffer than the surrounding graphite, causing a breakpoint. I've never done a large internal plug under a break, except when I have replaced an entire center section that had been crushed.

Without having the rod in front of me, my esponse would be to do a 1/2" plug and leave it at that. That's what I would do, and have done repeatedly, to my own rods.

But, you have it in front of you, and this is your learning experience!

Chris

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Re: Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: Chris Herrera (---.sub-174-255-162.myvzw.com)
Date: February 09, 2013 04:00AM

Wayne, it looks like you're in Washington State, is that correct?

Chris

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Re: Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: Wayne Hughes (---.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 09, 2013 01:19PM

Washatonian, guilty as charged! You as well? If I discover we are neighbors. I would take full advantage and have this rod in your hands, pronto!........LOL!

As I debate the plug vs rod glue, in the broken male end. Using either 5 min epoxy or rod glue. Would require the inside of the rod, at the male end, be dry?

I have successfully completed a plug repair, at a break, on 3 or 4 rods. With that repair, a fiberglass plug is used with a graphite rod. Another piece of fiberglass rod is used over the break, and if memory serves, slightly laps beyond the plug. The inside plug, and over piece is cemented into place. Then rod wrap over that.

Anyway, that experience. Combined with Roger's reccomendation of a fiberglass plug. Got me considering killing two birds with one stone.

But, there was also the question (for me). If, when rods are build, there is added strength at the male end of the ferrel. To counter the leverage the female end would have, against breaking the male side? The male side is much smaller in diameter, and would be the weak link.

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Re: Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: Chris Herrera (---.sub-174-233-128.myvzw.com)
Date: February 09, 2013 08:50PM

Lacey part time, Moses Lake most of the time_

Regarding a longer plug: I'm almost positive the male end is not reinforced when the blanks are made, because that would ruin the taper. And I know at least one major manufacturer that only plugs the male ends with a rubber stopper, 1/4-1/2" into the blank.

You said the rod had a nice parabolic curve, so it doesn't sound like the new tip is too stiff to mate with the other piece.

As I said, I prob would not plug that if it were mine, but I don't have it in front of me.

Take the plunge and do one or the other! Learn from the whole experience, and let us know what happened.

Also, unhide your email address, if you don't mind. I'll send you some info.

Chris

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Re: Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: Wayne Hughes (---.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 10, 2013 03:12PM

Chris, my email address is now accessable..

Still stimped, as to how to dry the inside of the broken rod tip. It has been sitting next to the Natural Gas Heater. For several days, and the moisture does not dissapate! It is consistantly 70-80 degrees in that enclosed, closet size space.

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Re: Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: Chris Herrera (---.sub-174-253-210.myvzw.com)
Date: February 10, 2013 05:29PM

Can you point a fan into the opening, to get a tiny amount of air circulation? It sounds like the moisture may have enough heat to evaporate, but then there is no air circulation to carry it away.

Chris

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Re: Convert rod to 3pc or repair broken section?
Posted by: Wayne Hughes (---.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 10, 2013 06:55PM

I am thinking of using a hair dryer. Have not gotten around to giving it a go.

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