I was reading Flex coat's mixing instructions and came across a NOTE: Flex coat doesn't use any CP on threads that cover guide feet because it won't penetrate the threads for a strong bond.
OK, So how do you keep the natural color of the thread?? I know the effects of no CP on nylon and NCP usually looks like paint.
Is there a better finish product that will penetrate without darkening the nylon thread-or is there a better thread to use?
All these beautiful nylon colors make no sense if you can't use CP.
Almost all of my rods are surf-with underwraps-I've usually used black nylon for the guide wraps so there wasn't an issue with no Cp. The underwraps always turn out darker than I would like
Even though the end results are good I would like to see a bright crisp color for underwraps and guide wraps if I choose not to use black thread.

the thread Holds The Guides On not the finish Why they said that i don't know
The finish prtects the thread from the eliments

Bill - willierods.com

You know, Bill, I've always been taught exactly what you said, "The thread holds the guides on and not the finish." It boggles my mind as to why the guides don't fall off of the rod easily. Is it the bond between the finish and the thread?
Bruce

I have used CP on alot of guide threads thru the years and never had one come loose. I currently have a rod I built using Maderia thread on the guides with 2 coats of CP. I have brutalized this rod for the last 3 years on blackfish and stripers and all is just fine. The thread holds the guides on.

I just reread the post and thought. Maybe they mean the Flex coat won't bond to the wrap well and start to come off. I have used Flex Coat on lots of wraps that had CP on them and never had a problem with the Flex Coat. I don't know what they mean. Try getting an old or newer guide wrap to come off for a redo.

Stripped many rods and old or new I heat the wraps to get them off They are always on Reall Good

Bill - willierods.com

Joe,
The words from flex coat mean exactly what they say.
The words from flex coat simply says that threads that are coated with flex coat do not allow the epoxy finish to penetrate the nylon thread for adhering the thread to each other as well as to the guide and blank itself.

Since cp penetrates and coats the threads to preserve the color of the thread, the words are 100% true.

The fact that folks don't generally have issues with CP coated thread simply means that you are getting a semi similar function from CP as you do from the epoxy. ie. you get thread penetration and a bit of adhesion from the CP when the thread has been coated.

In any event, the finish nicely encapsulates the cp coated and wrapped guides for a nice secure long term guide wrap.

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To test the concept, you could try a test.

Take a few old rod blanks and do a bunch of thread wraps with plain nylon thread, NCP thread, and then put CP on some of the wraps and don't put CP on some of the wraps.

Then, put a coat of epoxy thread finish on all of the wraps.

Let the finish harden for a month.

Then, after a month's cure - remove the finish and wraps for each of the wraps completed. Let us know what you find with respect to thread adhesion on the blank. i.e. do you find any difference in the adhesion properties of plain thread, NCP thread, CP coated plain thread or CP coated NCP thread.

Take care
Roger

Hi Joe,
I've used cp on everything since I started building a lot of years ago and I've never had a guide come loose. These days I use Madeira for all my biindings and use 3 coats of cp and none of them have ever come loose. Did some test work a while back on Madeira with and without cp on several wraps including a guide under 1 of each. Couldn't pull the guides out with a straght pull with pliers. Had to wiggle the guides to crack the epoxy before they would come out. The guide with the cp was more difficult to get out than the 1 without. Checked the bindings and found there was better penetration of epoxy on the wraps that had cp than the 1 without. It was only a one off test but it didn't show any problems with cp although the results were a bit different to what I expected.

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia