Now that a Tonkin split cane blank can be had for a very reasonable price, I am considering wrapping an 8' five weight. However, never having worked with cane before, are there issues I have to consider not normally associated with graphite? Can I use the same threads and finish as always? If the cane isn't finished, is tung oil a good choice (the Chinese have been waterproofing their junks with it for centuries)? How do you deal with the hexagonal winding check thing? I am not trying to replicate an authentic old fashioned fly rod, but merely build something functional and presentable. Any advice? Thanks!
Slainte,
Hunter

From ghoulies and ghosties,
and long leggedy beasties,
and things that go bump in the night,
Good Lord deliver us!

I have built on one bamboo blank. While I am certainly not an expert, I can tell you some observations I had in the transition from graphite to bamboo.

First, the hexagonal shape is a bigger deal than you would think. I found it much harder to wrap and also to fit the hardware. I started to use silk, but decided to stick with nylon. I'm glad I did. It looks fine and is much easier to work with.

Fitting the ferrules was not as easy as it would seem ( and good ones are expensive). You have to round the blank to fit in the ferrule, feather the end of the ferrule and then overwrap the end. I found this tedious work, although it did turn out nice. You also have the lap the ferrules to get proper fit. You may like doing this, I didn't.

I think most bamboo blanks come with some type of finish. I used an Angler's Roost Presidential blank that had finish and writting on it. The size and taper writen on it was nice, but I ended up sanding of the Angler's Roost name because of the way it was placed on the blank.

Another thing I had a hard time getting my head around was "dipping" the rod (after the guides are attached) in varnish rather than applying finish to the wraps like you would on a graphite blank. Rather than actually dipping the rod, I hung it vertically and started at the top with spar varnish and brushed it down the blank. You coat the whole rod rather than just the wraps. When dipping the rod this includes the guides. The way I did it, I kept the varnish off the guides themselves.

The last thing I noticed is the balance of the rod. Once I had it wrapped and varnished, I found it to feel tip heavy. I don't know if it was this specific blank or is typical of bamboo, since the bamboo blank is heavier than graphite. Fortunately I always put the reel seat on last, so I was able to flip the reel seat and make it downlocking. This helped the balance tremendously. As you set up the build, you need to be aware of overall balance.

Overall, the rod turned out nice, but there are some significant differences than building on a graphite blank.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2012 10:08AM by Bob Riggins.

Bob

How did you find the Angler's Roost blanks

I guess I can do a search -- But what is Lapping the ferrules

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2012 03:28PM by bill boettcher.

Oh, so many questions. Where to begin? So, if the blank has a finish, what is the logic of applying varnish over its length as opposed to just the wraps? Why wouldn't you simply epoxy finish the wraps as you would with a graphite rod? Second, I also want to know what "lapping" ferrules means. And who knew they could be "feathered"? I am unclear about what you are describing here. Thanks for the info, though.
Slainte,
Hunter

From ghoulies and ghosties,
and long leggedy beasties,
and things that go bump in the night,
Good Lord deliver us!

Ok now you're speaking my language. 99% of the work I do is repairing, restoring and building split cane.
yes there are a lot of differences between cane and plastic. but the techniques for a lot of the work are the same.
for your first cane wrap I would go with nylon. it's a little more forgiving.
Look for a blank that has the ferrules pre-lapped /fitted. you really don't need a whole dip tank set up unless you are doing multiple rods. I can walk you through a technique that uses a squeeze bottle and give excellent results.
a question to you. Have you fished a cane rod. what line wt and length. what about the taper. these are things to consider before you jump in and by a blank at random.

feel free to PM me with questions or if you need advice.

The ferrules offered by Angler's Roost generally fit pretty well and are exceptionally nice for the price. You can't go wrong with them.

If the blank is already finished, either impregnate or varnished, you needn't put anything else on it.

.............

Angler's Roost is a sponser, so there is a link to their website on the left. I'm not an expert on bamboo, but the blank looked fine to me. It is a Presidential series, 3 piece flamed Hardy Marvel with an extra tip. Almost everything on the build came from Angler's Roost. The ferrules were German Nickle Z ferrules and I needed two sets, which ran about $66 total. There are cheap brass ferrules for about $4.00 a set, but if you are going to spend the time and effort, get the good ones.

You have to prep the end of the ferrules where they connect with the blank. The ferrules are round and the blank is hexagonal. You have to shape the end of blank that is inserted into the ferrule round. There are little taps on the ferrule where you insert the blank into the ferrule. These tabs are used to make the transition from round to hexagonal. You have to feather them to make this transition smooth.

I most definately had to lap the ferrules to make them fit. The male end would not fit into the female end prior to lapping them. They are very nice ferrules, however, and even at the price are worth it to do the rod right. Don't ruin the build by getting cheap ferrules. Also have whoever sells you the blank (if you don't get one with ferrules installed) size the ferrules for you to match the blank.

As to why you varnish the whole blank, I have no idea. I was told that you were supposed to do it that way, so that's what I did.

Bottom line is, I'm glad I built the blank and it looks really nice, but I don't particularly like casting bamboo and I doubt I would ever build another one.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2012 10:07AM by Bob Riggins.

Bill - to answer one of your questions.....

Lapping is the act of working the joining surfaces of two items in such a way that the fit between them is as close to 100% (meaning no high or low spots on either piece) as possible.An example of lapping as a function in another domain is lapping valves, where a valve in an internal combustion engine has a mild abrasive compound (usually called "lapping compouns" strangely enough) applied to the mating surface of the valve is worked against the valve seat, usually by hand, to make sure that there is a 100% fit between the two. I'm guessing Bob is talking about that with ferrules, I'm guesing because a less than concentric profile of the blanks into the ferrules causes them to be slightly out of round (perhaps by .001 or .0001) and then the fit gets "sticky".

But this is a guess....

David,

Sounds like youre a machinist, or higher in the trade.


Hunter,

Feathering in the machine shop world basically means transition. Im guessing its refering a transition from circular to octagonal on the ferrule.


Derek

Thanks for all the replies, folks. As usual, rodbuilding.org is a wealth of information generously shared. It is the offerings of Angler's Roost that have re-awakened my interest in building a bamboo rod, so it is nice to hear good things about them, also. Again, thanks for all the help!
Slainte,
Hunter

From ghoulies and ghosties,
and long leggedy beasties,
and things that go bump in the night,
Good Lord deliver us!

Lapping = sometimes (not always) the metal ferrules (male end) does not fit perfectly into the female half. In this case very fine wet/dry sand paper (600 or higher grit) is used to SLIGHTLY taper the male ferrule - especially if the end has a sharp edge.

Feathering = the ferrules for bamboo rods generally have tabs cut into the sides. These tabs are meant to sit on the flats of hexagonal bamboo rods. These tabs have edges on them when epoxied onto the rod shaft and, like guide feet should be tapered to allow the thread to smoothly transition from the cane onto the metal ferrule.

Tapering = the bamboo shaft is hexagonal & the inside of today's ferrules are round therefore the bamboo cane should be rounded - so it fits like a tip top.

Bamboo rods are heavier and "slower" than modern fiberglass or graphite so when the rod is fished you have to adjust (slow down) your casting motion. It is best to use the lightest guides you can out towards the tip so as to maintain as much of the "crispness" as possible.

Size A nylon thread, finished with polyurethane (outtdoor) rated can be used on the wraps. As has been noted it is somewhat easier to work with.

Now Y"all this why I am joining rodbuilding.org ! Holy hocky puck what a post guys you guys offered me without even thinking yet as to my building bamboo as one said it's heavier then modern materials and reckon so ! Would be like using a base ball bat vs any type graphite or boron materials but there are those purists who insist on bamboo and like I told my Doctor " when I build your rod your gonna have to get off that wallet bubba ! Cause taint cheap I only use the highest quality guides and Bamboo ( Tonkan) and other materials , " He asked how much nothing less the $500.00 or so, I start my build for him in June he's going to China for some trout . Hope he ain't gonna get captured by some those fellers over there . Neil Wilfong dba " The Rod Smith" Brandon Ms.

Hey Also folks my Neil Is Neil Wilfong not WILFOG duh my fingers didn't respond before i hit submit HELP TOM can ya chage it ????


Remember those fallen for our freedoms and those vets who suffer the wars wounds who made it home ! It's because of their sacrifices we have the FREEDOM we have .. Neil Wilfong Viet Nam Desert Storm