My understanding is that for long distance casting distance competition, fast action blanks are used. Am I correct?

Yet at the same time, I also read that blanks that are moderate in action will cast further because they will load over a larger arc and store more energy to be released in the snap back for a longer cast.

Which is it? or is it that both are correct but applied to different contexts?

My problem is that I need to cast 1/50 to 1/32 oz lures as far as possible with about a 7' long blank and wonder how the action will affect distance, all others things being equal. (And yes, they are not always equal...:) Wondering how action impacts distance in this case when the lure is so light that it does not load the rod as much as the blank itself, and a bit of the guides. THe guides are micro so they are even far more negligible than the lure itself. The blank in this case is the heaviest part of the equation and loads itself the most.

Thanks,
Mo

A fast action rod flexes initially in the upper 1/3rd of its length, but it will still flex deeply in to the butt as more and more load is applied.

To cast as far as possible, you need to have the right amount of blank power, regardless of the action, to match the weight being cast.

.....................

To extend Mo's question, if I have the right amount of blank power to match the weight being cast, would a fast action or moderate action rod cast 1/50 to 1/32 oz lures farther?

Thanks,

Rick

I may well be wrong but I think the real answer is related to the caster's skill level. If we look at fly rods many say a moderate action rod is easier to cast. By the same token they would admit a very fast action rod in the hands of an expert would perform the best under the worst conditions.

I often test cast my (salt water) rods at a local lake. I figure I might as well get in a little blue gill action too so occasionaly I bring some worms and a fresh water ultra light set up. I have found an extra fast (hot shot) rod to easily out cast the moderate action ultra light. The light tip can always be loaded to some degree, even with a hair hook and a piece of worm!

So I vote for faster action but light in power. Problem is finding such a blank. I suspect an extra fast short fly rod blank (if there is such a thing) would be best.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

I use UL and Light rods almost exclusively (spinning rods). Just from experience I have found that I cast further with a moderate action rod than I do with a fast. The difference is not huge though. Example: I have an ISP783F Batson RX7 set up with tall frame spinning guides and size 4 micro's for runners. That blank is listed as mod/fast. I also have an ISP781F which is listed as moderate. I cast further with the 781 using the exact same set up, same reel, line, guides, spacing etc. Again, it's not a huge difference but it is noticeable. I can still cast really well using 1/32 oz lures with the 783F. I prefer the 783F because of the faster action and I don't really sacrifice that much on casting distance. I think that it's just because moderate action rod blanks will bend further down the blank which allows you to load smaller weights better and cast further. I'm not sure if that's what you are looking for though. Hope this helps. If you look on Batson's website you will see that the specs on those 2 blanks are listed completely different from each other but I use both of them for trout, panfish etc. I just prefer the 783F.

David Dosser
Coshocton, OH

I suspect you won't find much actual difference in casting distance between the various actions, but the casting feel and stroke is going be different.

If it were me, I'd be trying to find a fast action popping blank to do what you want to do. However, when you start talking about such extremely light lures, I think you're going to have to pick up a shorter blank and then extend it to get the length you want. At any rate, it'll be an interesting project.

.............

Mo,
I tend to agree with Russel.
You can load a fast blank with lures that light, but it will require quick reflexes to keep up with the release point.
As you accelerate the blank the lure's effective weight increases helping to load the rod.
The release point, however becomes extremely quick due to the rod response speed.
Higher speed, more distance if you've the ability to stay in front of the rod with your timing.

Eugene Moore

Mo,
One thing I think your going to find is that the largest number of 7' blanks available are generally going to be rated for 1/16th oz. or heavier lures and 4-6 lb. test or heavier line weights which would make casting those tiny lures more difficult when considering what the blank is actually rated for. On the other hand there are quite a few 5'6" or 6' blanks available that are rated for as small as 1/32 oz. lures and 2 lb. line which seems more appropriate for what you are trying to do. Because of this I think Tom's suggestion about buying a shorter blank and extending it might be your best option.

Another idea might be to use a fly blank instead of a spin blank. I have no idea if that would work to make a longer distance casting rod for light lures but maybe someone has done it and can give an opinion.

As much as I love to use ultra-lights and tiny lures to fish for trout, I also belive that the concept of casting tiny lures a great distance is a sort of oxymoron.

Good Luck!

Lynn

I have not used any of these but am considering one for light trout

[www.mudhole.com]

Bill - willierods.com

I agree with Tom,
If you take a 5 foot ultra light rod, and then put it on the end of a 15 foot surf rod, I suspect that your 20 foot rod will let you cast that very light lure a very long way.
The ligh lure really only has enough mass to load about the top 1/3rd of the ultra light rod, so the rest of the rod is getting the lure to accelerate during the cast.

Good luck
Roger

Thanks everyone. Fascinating.

1. So, there is no consensus. It seems that fast blanks however is not a detriment - yet I've read that moderate blanks can store more energy over the initial part of the stroke only to release it at the later part of the stroke. So there is two line of opinions and I'd love to hear more interaction between these two view points.

2. Tom, your point about loading is right on target. However, I find that I can whip any lower powered fresh water low bare blanks fast enough to load just by its own mass, even those of the highest modulus. This is before adding any guides or lures so I've always assumed that I did not have to worry about loading.

Richard's question is helpful: "To extend Mo's question, if I have the right amount of blank power to match the weight being cast, would a fast action or moderate action rod cast 1/50 to 1/32 oz lures farther? " Any thoguhts on that.

Mo



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2011 01:24PM by Mo Yang.

Overall distance wouldn't differ by much, if any. It would just require a bit different casting motion to reach the maximum from each one.

............

Mo,

Your preferred casting stroke will help determine the action of the rod that you need. Given a moderate action blank and an extra fast action blank that both load the lure you want to throw, the moderate action blank will require a slower casting stroke than the extra fast action rod. If you fire your lure out with a snap of the wrist, the extra fast blank may be for you. If you use a slower, more deliberate casting stroke, the moderate action rod may be for you. I have a tendency to try to whip the light rods too hard, so my preference would be for an extra fast action blank. Regardless, it is important to adjust your casting stroke to get the most out of the blank. I believe it is the fact that the moderate blank will need a slower casting stroke to cast the lure the same distance that gives the perception that it will cast further. Simply because you don't have to move your hands as quickly, but you will find that there is a very fine line between getting the most out of the cast and overpowering the cast..

The fact that you can use the inertia of those blanks themselves to get them to load is the reason that you need to pay carful attention to what you are adding to the blank. When the blank begins to load itself, it is taking energy away from the cast, because when the lure is released. The rod itself won't be able to damp as quickly as possible and will oscillate back and forth. Thus energy is dissipated by the rod rather than going into casting the lure. As the rod oscillates, it deviates the line path from the straightest possible path, and will remove energy from the system. Over power the cast on a low power casting rod, and the reel will let you know in a hurry. One of the big benefits of using micros is because they help minimize the amount of energy that gets dissipated in the rod, making the rod more efficient, and able to cast farther.

Another issue that plagues distance casting light lures is the terminal velocity at which they will move through the air. You are likely able to release these lures at their terminal velocity. Due to the low mass of these lures (and often high drag coefficients), they will only go so fast. Even when using a longer blank, you are only likely to gain the extra time of flight given by the amount of time it takes to fall the extra length of the rod. This means that they will really only cast so far. Beyond that you need to start getting creative, and use extra weight, a float, or some other means to add to the mass, if it won't adversely affect the presentation.

For an UL where distance casting is critical, I would approach things a bit differently than I do a normal build. For this type of build, you can throw the adage of 'an extra micro or two won't harm much' out the door, because it will matter, perhaps not much, but it will matter. For this type of rod, efficiency is key. I would likely do my static placement with significantly larger guides than I plan to use, just to be sure I have enough to do the job, and put the micros at those locations. This will sacrifice a bit of line control, give a line path that isn't as nice, but it will keep the weight added to the tip section to a minimum. I would likely wrap a guide on the tip of this rod, rather than using a tubed tip top. I would definitely choose a light high modulus blank, and extend the blank if I can't find something long enough with a limber enough tip.

Joe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2011 02:29PM by Joe Vanfossen.

Generally, fast action for one-handed casting, and moderate-fast for two-handed casting. I like a popping rod for casting bass-sized crankbaits, they cast farther than a fast action rod using two hands (spinning) with this size lure. I can feel the rod load with the popping rod.

However, with the ultra-light rods you are talking about, the blank should be able to load on it's own weight and I think it will be mostly a matter of finding the right power/length rod to do the job, and lots of test casting with different rods. I would suggest using a two-handed casting style to get more power. You could also experiment with different hand placement... try two hands together, and also try one hand at the butt. I would also not limit yourself to one length.