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The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: Bob Meiser (---.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com)
Date: May 20, 2011 10:42AM

Our shop does 5 to 6 hundred feather inlays a year on our custom rods, and we do color preserve many of our decorative thread wrap colors at the butt an ferrule details as well.

For the past 15 years or so we have been dependent on Guderod 811 for this purpose ... We preferred this product as it was clear and water based <> Not milky like all other CPs. We prefer the clear as we can see exactly how the feathers are laid down.

As we all know 811 left the shelves several years ago, and in hearing of this we bought as many cases of the stuff that we could find to hold us over, and began to try and locate another product that would replace it ...

... Well over time we found it, and it can be purchased at your local paint store.

It is Deft water based polyurethane clear finish.

This product has a long proven track record, and is rated among the highest all weather UV protectives available, it fills and covers thread and feather inlays in a tuff ultra clear protective film and accepts all epoxies that we have used without a hitch.

This is all we use now, and highly recommend it.

Give it a try <> You may be amazed

Bob Meiser <> R.B. Meiser Fly Rods LLC

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Re: The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: bill boettcher (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: May 20, 2011 12:18PM

Thanks for the info Bob I am going to try it out

Bob
I notice they have an Aerosol,Spray have you ever tried that ??

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2011 12:23PM by bill boettcher.

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Re: The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: Bob Meiser (---.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com)
Date: May 20, 2011 12:42PM

Hi Bill,

No I've not tried this for any rod building applications but I assume it would work in some aspects, but for us out-of-the can is best.

In feather inlays we really need to flood the immediate area to position the feathers exactly where we want them, and also need 100% filament coverage to seal/fill the feathers.

This to minimize bubble escapement at epoxy coverage ... Same true of the threads at the inlays.

We have never used anything that covers as throughly as does this product and man is it tuff !!! ...

... And thread colors do not blotch as penetration is 100%

It has a viscosity similar to any of the milky CPs so we do not cut it, but it builds similar to a light epoxy.

This really cuts down on the number of epoxy coats required for our inlays.

It dries ready for epoxy in 4 hours at room temps for inlays, but if used for heavy thread weaves I'd suggest an overnight cure prior to epoxy.

Bob Meiser

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Re: The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: David Dosser (---.columbus.res.rr.com)
Date: May 20, 2011 01:41PM

I use Cason's Crystal Clear and really like it. (Water based)

David Dosser
Coshocton, OH

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Re: The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: Mike Winkler (---.samuelmanutech.com)
Date: May 20, 2011 02:53PM

Thanks for the info Bob. I have tried several different brands of CP and have not found one that works the way I have been wanting. Either you get the white milky stuff that makes it difficult to use while doing feathers, or the clear stuff that does't quite cut it when it comes to feathers. I will give this a try.

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Re: The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: Daniel Glenn Eason (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: May 20, 2011 04:58PM

hey you said this is an excellent color preservative... as in nylon thread color preservative??
or just a u.v. protectant for n.c.p. thread

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Re: The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: Bob Meiser (---.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com)
Date: May 20, 2011 06:39PM

Dan,

Yes it has proven to work very well for us as a thread color preservative ...

Bob Meiser

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Re: The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: Duane Richards (---.ronkva.east.verizon.net)
Date: May 20, 2011 06:46PM

Bob Meiser Wrote:

it fills and covers thread
> and feather inlays in a tuff ultra clear
> protective film and accepts all epoxies that we
> have used without a hitch.
>
> Bob Meiser <> R.B. Meiser Fly Rods LLC

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Re: The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: Duane Richards (---.ronkva.east.verizon.net)
Date: May 20, 2011 06:48PM

What kind of drying time before epoxy application are you allowing Bob? Are you thinning the product any?

DR

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Re: The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: Mark Fisher (---.lns5.way.bigpond.net.au)
Date: May 20, 2011 07:50PM

Just thought I'd throw my little bit in on this thread. I've been using Chromaseal for quite a while now and getting really good results. It dries exceptionally clear with no cloudyness or haze. For featherwork it is very easy to work with. I used the old 811 and I personally reckon the Chromaseal beats it hands down.

Mark
Outback Rods

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Re: The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: billy broderick (---.dhcp.embarqhsd.net)
Date: May 20, 2011 08:02PM

Very interesting thanks for the tip. I too have run thru my supply of 811 and was flubbing around with all sorts of products. I will def have to try the Deft poly clear. I was settling on the chromaseal but its not as good as the 811 so i was saving the little bit of 811 for feather and inlay work and hording every drop. Now my stash is gone.

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Re: The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: Bob Meiser (---.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com)
Date: May 20, 2011 09:06PM

Duane,

"It dries ready for epoxy in 4 hours at room temps for inlays, but if used for heavy thread weaves I'd suggest an overnight cure prior to epoxy. "

"It has a viscosity similar to any of the milky CPs so we do not cut it, but it builds similar to a light epoxy. "

This quoted from my post above.

Yea Billy ... I knew I was going to get to that point with Guderod, so know the feeling.

The same grey zone continues with their thread as well and we had all of our balls in their court in that regards ... Pac Bay Pro Wrap has saved the day <> Great thread and we applaud them for developing this fine product in such a timely fashion.

Bottom line is if you do this stuff (rod building) for a living you find the best products available to get the job done: Not only most efficiently and economically, but the best functionally as well.

I've used literally every CP out there, Chromeseal and Carsons Crystal Clear included ... Great products for what they are <> But for us they didn't cut the muster for our criteria.

... All I'm doing her guys is conveying my experience with this product, use what you wish <> But hands down for our purposes, the Deft product works the best.

Bob Meiser



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2011 11:45PM by Bob Meiser.

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Re: The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: Daniel Glenn Eason (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: May 21, 2011 12:03AM

Bob Meiser Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dan,
>
> Yes it has proven to work very well for us as a
> thread color preservative ...
>
> Bob Meiser


so just apply and wait till the color returns to the nylon thread b4 applying another coat?

EDIT: i did a product search and found the tech sheet

[www.deftfinishes.com]

it says the product is provided at medium viscosity and that thinning is not recommended, have you tried thinning the product bob?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2011 12:58AM by Daniel Glenn Eason.

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Re: The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: Bob Meiser (---.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com)
Date: May 21, 2011 03:13AM

Dan,

We like the penetration and build characteristics of the product as is so we have never found a need to cut it.

Bob Meiser

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Re: The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: Daniel Glenn Eason (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: May 21, 2011 03:26PM

Bob,

thanx for sharing this find. im gonna give it a try this coming week.

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Re: The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: Billy Vivona (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 21, 2011 07:52PM

Great thread here, I hope everyone trying ANY new product take the time to TEST it to see how it works for themselves. It's alwyas funny to see someone say product A doesnt' work well, then the next post product A is awesome. Nobody is lying, but depending on how you use a product, and what results you are looking for, there migh tbe a different end result from builder to builder.

Anytime osmeone shares info like this on a new product, a tip of th ehat is in order.

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Re: The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: Bill Stevens (---.br.br.cox.net)
Date: May 21, 2011 09:05PM

Bob when you "talk" I listen -

Don't do feathers - use only black thread -

Please whisper in my ear -

Have you found an epoxy YOU CAN USE?

Substitute For Conventional Finish?

Sensitized

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Re: The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: Bob Meiser (---.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com)
Date: May 22, 2011 12:03AM

Hi Bill,

No I have not.

The bottom line is I simply cannot do finish or adhesive epoxy work any longer.

My partners and our apprentices do this now, but I still do the custom grip milling/assembly feather work, inscriptions etc.

All of this entails the use of poly urethane finishes and adhesives.

Ironically as it turns out, we are field testing the credibility of finishes like Deft polyurethane as a possible finish for wraps as they have very good build capability.

The water based polyurethanes have now gotten to the point of Marine grade finish, and floor finish quality ... And that is a big advancement with very tough criteria.

They dry crystal clear, are highly UV resistant, do well in general climatic temps in both fresh and salt water environments etc etc <> But on-the-water, hands-on field work will be the final test.

This will all take at least two seasons, but so far it looks promising.

We have found that correct turning speeds and increasing/regulating ambient heat (to speed cure time) definitely does enhance a better build up.

... Sooooo <> We'll see !!!

Maybe have a go at it yourself and we can compare notes ?

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Re: The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: Bill Stevens (---.br.br.cox.net)
Date: May 22, 2011 09:16AM

Thanks -

I have been able to sell the appearance by thickening the third coat by allowing to thicken -

but

When they do come back for guide repair I have severe problems with stripping.

It pulls off top layers of paint and ?resin down to ?fiber? -

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Re: The best thread color preservative and inlay adhesive
Posted by: Bob Meiser (---.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com)
Date: May 22, 2011 12:04PM

But epoxy can do that as well Bill ...

We've eliminated that problem by only using clear coat over graphite <> No paint colors.

Then even if a bit of the finish (never have seen it go down to fiber ?) comes with the guide all we need to do is buff out the scared area and re-coat with clear finish.

In truth we do only our own warranty repairs, and 90% of the time it's actually more cost effective for us to simply replace the section rather then mess around with tedious guide replacements.

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