Someone earlier made a comment that they expected more micros to be on production rods.

Based on an article on the ESPN website, you now officially have another production player:

Quote:
The K-Series will be available in a 4mm micro guide size (as well as larger sizes) and it is this guide St. Croix will use on the micro guide rods they plan to introduce at ICAST in 2010, according to Jeff Schluter, VP of Marketing for the Wisconsin-based firm.

"I think you're going to see a number of companies introducing rods with micro guides," notes Schluter, "because the guides do offer specific advantages, and the K-Series is going to make micro guides even more attractive. Micro guides are not going to totally take over the industry, but they do seem to be the new buzz word in rod building, and based on our early evaluations, micro guides are going to become an important option for fishermen."

Given Kistler's and Duckett's early market success with their rods, other manufacturers besides St. Croix will certainly re-evaluate micro guides in the weeks ahead, as well. Bass fishermen who try a rod with these guides may well demand it.



I did notice they are being specifically called micro guides. Looks like the name has stuck.

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Any time a bandwagon comes along and you intend to jump upon it, you must have a name for it. The pity is that these things have a way of coming around to bite themselves in the behind!

St. Croix is pretty savvy when it comes to outfitting their rods of course. So I would expect they will not use these guides in any application where they are not appropriate.

Barry Kneller Wrote:
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> So I would expect
> they will not use these guides in any application
> where they are not appropriate.

Those of us that builds "Micro Guide" rods have been saying that all along. They are great for many applications but certainly not for all.

Lance

And how do you propose micros will "have a way of coming around to bite themselves in the behind! "

I find that interesting as about a year ago you felt:
"I am amazed at how small you can go and still have excellent results. But at some point there will be diminishing returns in terms of ease of use and what you gain by going much smaller. The size 4 guides seem like a good compromise all the way around. They should be light enough to get you some benefit in casting performance."
[rodbuilding.org]

That hints you saw the performance benefits of micro guides.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2010 01:50PM by Alex Dziengielewski.

I would advise you to read my post a little more carefully. It is not the size of the guides I find a possible problem. It is the characterization which leads to generalizations and can indeed be used in reverse to bite itself in the behind. A little more careful reading is in order.

Your explanation is far different than what I carefully read originally. I saw no mention of generalizations or characterizations. Thank you for the clarification and deeper specification of what you actually meant.

I don't know that generalizations will be a huge issue - time will tell on that, but I haven't personally had an issue for the last two years. Anglers generally understand the differentiations among fly rods, casting rods, etc... it may take some time, but if the product deserves it, they will learn the nuances with time. A lot depends on how the rods are built, what information the customer is armed with and a host of other factors.

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I am trying to read your post more carefully -

Please let me have a clue as to what this means -

"It is the characterization which leads to generalizations and can indeed be used in reverse"

What presently used characterizations do you find to be problematic?

Please provide an example of how perceived problems could be used in reverse in a harmful manner.

With your permission one more question.

Your quote:

"St. Croix is pretty savvy when it comes to outfitting their rods of course. So I would expect they will not use these guides in any application where they are not appropriate."

There a number of custom builders who were involved in the micro rod development that was started by Rodmaker Magazine - developed by using this forum - who are now selling large numbers of the micro rods. Do you expect custom builders who are savvy to build rods that are inappropirate for the application.

Please supply the accepted definition of "micro guide." Where is this to be found and do fishermen understand what size or type a guide must be to fall into that classification? If a fisherman purchases a rod with what he assumes or believes to be micro guides and it does not perform to his expectation, or he has some sort of trouble, real or imagined, the fault will be cast upon "micro guides." I watched fly rod builders go through the same thing with "oversize guides."

Do I expect rod builders to use such guides on rods that are inappropriate for the application? Yes I do. In fact I would bet on it. One need only spend a few days reading this forum to understand that most rod builders do not fall under the accepted definition of "savvy." If they did, many of the questions asked here would never have appeared. The idea that "micro guides are better" will be the emphasis with few asking why, how or when.

Any single foot guide under a size SIX is a micro guide.

it is all about selling rods. A company sees builders making a certain type of rod AKA micros, split grips, whatever. The want for them.

Why should they NOT add these things to Factory Rods.

They want to sell rods, and this is what the public wants ???!!!

The thing is they build them cheaper the I can, unless I give them away.

The one thing I hate is when I go fishing early and with no light -sun- it is hard to string up my rod - those things are soooo small LOL

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2010 04:19PM by bill boettcher.

Everyone who uses this forum knows the sizes of the micro guides. Thousands of them are sold each day.

As in all endeavors the cream will rise to the top. Good micro rods will take their proper place.

When a positive note pertaining to micro guides or micro rods appears on this forum a warning shot is fired. I urge anyone to start a thread listing the down sides of a micro rod noting things that may get some in trouble.

A Micro Ditty for all!

Some drive the bus, some ride the bus to reach a destination, some watch the bus speeding by in the night and others simply throw rocks as it passes!

If you read the full text of the ESPN article on micro guides you should realize the this bus has left the station!

I suggest that "rock throwers" purchase an adequate supply of Calamine Lotion to treat "zits" on their posterior at the midpoint between the shoulders and the knees.

Micro guides and Micro Rods are here to stay.

For Tom Kirkman: How can I hide my IP Address in my signature line on this forum?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2010 05:44PM by Tom Kirkman.

So Mr. Sams is correct? Anything smaller than a size six, and in a single foot style, is to be considered a micro guide?

Bill,

You can't hide your IP address - your service provider would have to do it. Some companies route their business traffic through a network server that blanks it. But those are about the only ways I know of to keep it from showing. So there's nothing you can do personally to hide it outside of contacting your ISP or working through a company network that doesn't reveal it. Whatever comes in when you are posting is recorded on this end.

...............

Hay Bill

stringing up the rod in early morning with the sun not out yet, It is like stringing thread though a needle LOL

Bill - willierods.com

The trick to stringing line through very small guides is to allow just a very short section of line to protrude past your thumb and forefinger. Then set the inverted "V" formed by your thumb and forefinger onto the rod and slide it towards the tip. Once you get the hang of it, you'll find that the line will almost automatically self feed through even the tiniest opening.

..............

I here ya Tom, and know how --- it is just a PAIN Heck to me 4's are small - have not tried th 2.5 or 2's yet ??? maybe I need better glasses ?? LOL

Bill - willierods.com

I'm not sure what is so savvy about a size 30 on a light action spinning rod - and for that matter, the exact same guides and spacing as another rod of the same length but with different power and action.

I find threading 3mm guides pretty easy - just as Tom described it.

Steve Gardner showed me that trick.

............

boettcher - I guess you never have to tie on hooks in the AM? LOL!!!

Barry - Please go back and carefully read the M&M postings. I believe most of that info, including micro size, is contained in those editions. That's the reason those were put out - doucmentation and reference for everyone, with everyone contributing.

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Most of my orders for rods coming in are for Micro Rods. The customers are asking for them by name now. I recently exhibited at a show a few weeks ago and two different companies came up to us and specifically asked if we built micro guide rods. After showing and explaining to them the pros and cons and then went out to do some test casting they both ordered some rods from me , one for a tackle store and the other for a guide service, 70 rods between the two of them. They both wanted to be the first in their area to offer micro rods. Also these rods are being built task specific to certain types of lures and certain types of fishing techniques where these rods will outshine and out perform rods built with standard sized guides.

If not for forums like this one and others like Tackle Tour and various other forums where the word micro always pop up these customers would never have stopped by to talk to me much less placed these orders with me. Also I don't even remember how many people stopped by my booth that weekend and asked if I built micro rods. They didn't ask if I built rods with small guides, they specifically asked if I built micro rods.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Lance