I have a 12 foot vintage Fenwick fiberglass surf casting rod designed to use 2 to 6 ounce lure weights, as well as an older St. Croix 11 foot graphite surf rod for 1 to 3 ounce weights. Both rods currently have double-footed spinning guides.

I want to employ the New Guide Concept on these rods. I will be fishing with 20 lb mono as well as 30 lb braid.

Will the Fuji BLAG guides be strong enough for this application?

Do I need to consider a V-type guide to raise the line off the blank?

What is the minimum size guide I should consider (I do not intend to use leaders with either the braid or mono, although I will like attach pre-snelled rigs)

Thanks for your thoughts.

Rick

I would use higher frame guides for the butt and transition guides. For the choker and running guides you can use low frame single foot or low frame double foot casting guides.

If you're not going to pass shock leader knots, you may well be able to get by with size 8 for your smallest sized guides.

...................

Thank you, Tom - will strength of low frame single guides be an issue?

Is BLAG a low frame single guide? If not, can you give an example of a low frame single guide?


Rick

I can no longer keep up with all the various designations from all the various companies. Sorry.

Just browse the catalogs or websites and select the type guide needed.

Low frame guides aren't as subject to damage as higher frame guides. Thus even the fly type single foots end up being pretty solid on most rods. If in doubt, use a low frame casting guide with double feet.

............

Yes blag are the alconite fly guides with black frames. I know absolutely nothing about surf rods but the fact that you will be using them on a rod set up for 20-30lb line makes me think they will work fine. I use them on salmon rods that I run the same line on and they work just fine. Using a Tony Pena knot, I have gotten away with as small as #5 blags as runners with 30lb braid tied to 20lb mono.

I cannot tell by your question whether or not you will be using these rods for casting or spinning applications when your re-work is complete. I highly recommend the taller guides for casting, to keep the line off the blank. That said:

1) for the Fenwick, if it one of the big ones such as the "Big Surfstick" it probably now comes with five or six guides which start out at about a 50 and end at a 10, with a 10 diameter tip. My redo of that rod as a spinner would be to go 50-40-25-20-16- (16) with at least a 12 diameter tip ring. For casting configuration I would go 30-25-20-16-16-16 with at least a 12 diameter tip ring. Why the apparently large guides? The structural strength for when the heavy (50-80 lb) shock leader rattles through on the cast with 6-8n bait (frames and rings are more robust). The height is also better.

By the way, even if you just replace the old heavy guides with the shock ring with new lighter strong ones without the shock ring, you will notice a huge performance improvement. On a rework of an old Big Surfstick some years ago I remember weighing the old vs the new guides on a postal scale and the new guides were something like one fifth the weight of the old ones. And what a difference it made on the finished rod!

2) For the lighter one as a spinner I'd probably go with 50-40-25-20-16-12-(12) and for casting go with 25-20-16-16-12-12-(12). And at least a 12 diameter ring at the top. Your shock leader will probably be lighter on this one given the blank rating.

Lots of time on the beach and fooling with variations leads me toward this set of choices...and recommendations.

Whit

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Whit,

thanks for your response

I will be using as spinning rods

Rick

Rick:

With spinning in mind, on the Fenwick I would consider something like the Pac Bay BSHG series, and for the lighter rod something like the Amtak HLG series. Variations come in black or chrome.

Whit

Thanks Whit - the specificity is much appreciated - I was able to take a look at images of each guide.

I take it I want a lighter, flexible guide for the light spinning rod, and two feet are better than one :)

Regards,
Rick

Rick:

If you want to get edgy, on the St Croix you could have the top 3 or 4 guides as single foot, but the 1-3 oz rating is the heavy end of the scale. IMO I would stick with the double foot guides.

Another factor is whether you are hard on your rods, i.e. in travel, etc. The rougher you are I'd go with the double feet.

Also if you plan on using anything more than about a 30 lb shock leader, I'd go with the double feet. Just the knot rattling through the guides on a hefty cast pops out inserts, especially on the smaller guides.

Whit

Makes sense, Whit.

And as you point out, replacement of the older, heavier guides should make a huge difference in rod performance. After all, I am not dropshotting!

Thanks for your help,
Rick

Rick:

Not to prolong this thread unnecessarily, I have built a number of rods in the 7 1/2 - 10 foot range, just for surf fishing, that actually did use the single foots although in a casting configuration. There are mostly styled for lighter lures and iron in the surf of, say, up to 1 1/2 oz (even though the blanks may be rated heavier) and using 10-15 lb line with 12 lb (.035) the most common. I really like the lightweignt configuration when there is lots of casting to be done and the surf is light.

Whit

Thanks Whit - I need to think about how to balance out what I want to fish with - I may end up making the light spinning rod even lighter if it can handle the lighter weight lures well. As for the Fenwick - it is kind od a monster and I think double-footed guides are the way to go.

From what I read recently about the forces generated during surf casting, I may use ave 50 lb braid as well to avoid the need for a shock leader.

Your advice is much appreciated.

Rick

Rick

I completely agree with the trajectory of your thinking.

If you'd like to chat over the phone e-mail me first at pengle@prenova.com and we can exchange phone numbers.

Whit