Hey fellas, what advantages/disadvantages are there in using steel framed rollers (Aftco, All American) versus aluminum frame rollers (Batson, Stuart, Winthrop).

Is it a weight/balance factor or other performance concern? Tolerances? Heat dissapation? Flexibility? etc.....

Just curious as I am about to venture into a 60-80lb class trolling rod and using 80-100lb hollow core spectra and appropriate topshot leader.

I want to use the right guideset for the given application and not worry about the spectra getting around the roller and jamming up.

Thanks!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2009 02:28AM by Will Dea.

Wil -
I think you're more interested in the "play" or tolerance rather than the material (steel / aluminum) of the frame. I'll say up front that I have NOT used the Batson or Winthrop rollers. I have used both the AFTCO and All American roller guides and prefer the All American Rollers because the groove in the roller is a bit deeper; the 'shoulder' on the edge of the roller is a bit wider and the gap between the large double rollers (stripper) is closer/tighter than the AFTCO rollers - of the same size. By that I mean that unless you are looking at AFTCO Big Foot rollers my PERSONAL preference is for the All American rollers.
Weight should not be a concern on a 60-80 lb class rod - it's going to 'live' in a rod holder 90% of the time. I doubt you would be able to measure "heat dissipation" between aluminum and steel frame guides - you are likely more interested in the whether the rollers are hardened or not. Not a question on the All Americans - AFTCO offers hardened and unhardened rollers ( "H" stamped on the frame of AFTCO denoting "hardened roller"). I also don't think that flexibility is going to be an issue between steel and aluminum frames - after all you're going to be wrapping the guide feet securely most likely with size C or D thread and probably more than one layer.
One question why are you loading up with 80-100 lb hollow core spectra on a 60-80 lb class rod? What reel are you thinking of using and at what drag setting? I guess I'm really asking: "What are you fishing for?" The reason for that question has to do with knots, length of your leader and terminal tackle and is related to the choice of guides - which MIGHT push you to AFTCO's

Hello Will. The advantage of aluminum framed rollers vs. steel is actual construction vs. life longevity. Steel frames are plated and will eventually crack that plating and allow corrosion underneath the corrosion. If you are looking for a guide that will not allow line to go between the frame and the roller (which will be your biggest problem with stamped frames vs. milled frames), then you should consider that you only have 2 options, Pac Bay and Winthrop.

Winthrop is hands down your best option. Its a milled aluminum frame with recessed housing for the roller and bearings. They are phenomenal.

Pac Bay is constructed the same way with recessed housing for the roller.

Both have aluminum frames and the difference is in the bearings. Winthrop actually has ball bearings and Pac Bay is sleeved.

Which will last longer? Winthrop. When you deal with a company that is concentrating on one thing, they will do it well. Winthrop does just that.

Plus, they are american made.

Do NOT use Aftco for this. You will be disappointed. Line will get stuck between the rollers. You will not be happy with them for this application.
I have not used all american but from what I can see, the frame is stamped and not what you should be looking for.

This is what I do. I build offshore rods mostly and concentrate on offshore rods.
I carry the full line of Winthrop rollers and can give you good prices for them. Send me an email and I can help you through the process.
Kevin
kknox@anglersenvy.com
www.anglersenvy.com

Wil -
I'll go along with what Kevin has written. As earlier I've not used Winthrop. But if they are, as Kevin says, a milled aluminum frame then that is what you want.

From MUDHOLE site:

"Attention, Rod Builders:

If you're thinking about an Aftco roller guide, Mud Hole recommends custom rod builders check out the advanced features and superior knot clearance of the Winthrop Roller Guides or the lifetime guarantee offered by the All American Roller Guides before making your purchase."

I have used Aftco brand roller guides for ten or more years and have no complaints. The only downside I have seen is that if the guys do not keep them rinsed and give them a yearly dose of oil they will tend to seize. Dollar for the dollar I find them to be excellent.

All American Roller Guides are not plated, they are Stainless Steel and they have a lifetime, No Hassle, warranty on the frames, rollers and bearings.

Check for yourself at this link:

[www.aarollerguides.com]

Rena

New 50 lb Class ALPS Roller Guides

Sequim WA- July 1st, 2009 – one of the fishing industry’s leading component suppliers, Batson Enterprises, is pleased to announce the new ALPS 50lb class rollers guides & tops.
After the introduction of our 80lb class ALPS rollers last year we saw the need to produce roller guides to fill the 50 lb class roller guide market. These are brand new designs that feature high quality bushings to help keep the cost down.

• Precision CNC machined from marine grade aluminum
• Super hard anodized finish for superb corrosion resistance
• Pin / Axle / Screws / Bushings & Rollers all made from ""SS316""" stainless steel for superb resistance to corrosion.
• Guide feet are pre-ground then anodized for easy wrapping
• Smaller guide sizes feature feet that are narrower for easier wrapping near the tip of the rod.
Model # Height (mm/in) Length (mm/in) Color (frame) Color (roller) MSRP
MSRXSG 31 31.75mm / 1.25in 68.58mm / 2.70in Matte silver / silver $12.69
MSRXSG 32 34.03mm / 1.34in 69.85mm / 2.75in Matte silver / silver $13.08
MSRXSG 33 36.57mm / 1.44in 71.37mm / 2.81in Matte silver / silver $13.53
MSRXSG 35 44.45mm / 1.75in 85.85mm / 3.38in Matte silver / silver $17.87
BRXSG31 31.75mm / 1.25in 68.58mm / 2.70in Black / silver $12.69
BRXSG32 34.03mm / 1.34in 69.85mm / 2.75in Black / silver $13.08
BRXSG33 36.57mm / 1.44in 71.37mm / 2.81in Black / silver $13.53
BRXSG35 44.45mm / 1.75in 85.85mm / 3.38in Black / silver $17.87
LTRXSG31 31.75mm / 1.25in 68.58mm / 2.70in Light TC / silver $13.81
LTRXSG32 34.03mm / 1.34in 69.85mm / 2.75in Light TC / silver $14.20
LTRXSG33 36.57mm / 1.44in 71.37mm / 2.81in Light TC / silver $14.71
LTRXSG35 44.45mm / 1.75in 85.85mm / 3.38in Light TC / silver $19.36

New 50 lb Class ALPS Roller Guides

Sequim WA- July 1st, 2009 – one of the fishing industry’s leading component suppliers, Batson Enterprises, is pleased to announce the new ALPS 50lb class rollers guides & tops.
After the introduction of our 80lb class ALPS rollers last year we saw the need to produce roller guides to fill the 50 lb class roller guide market. These are brand new designs that feature high quality bushings to help keep the cost down.

• Precision CNC machined from marine grade aluminum
• Super hard anodized finish for superb corrosion resistance
• Pin / Axle / Screws / Bushings & Rollers all made from SS316 stainless steel for superb resistance to corrosion.
• Guide feet are pre-ground then anodized for easy wrapping
• Smaller guide sizes feature feet that are narrower for easier wrapping near the tip of the rod.
Model # Height (mm/in) Length (mm/in) Color (frame) Color (roller) MSRP
MSRXSG 31 31.75mm / 1.25in 68.58mm / 2.70in Matte silver / silver $12.69
MSRXSG 32 34.03mm / 1.34in 69.85mm / 2.75in Matte silver / silver $13.08
MSRXSG 33 36.57mm / 1.44in 71.37mm / 2.81in Matte silver / silver $13.53
MSRXSG 35 44.45mm / 1.75in 85.85mm / 3.38in Matte silver / silver $17.87
BRXSG31 31.75mm / 1.25in 68.58mm / 2.70in Black / silver $12.69
BRXSG32 34.03mm / 1.34in 69.85mm / 2.75in Black / silver $13.08
BRXSG33 36.57mm / 1.44in 71.37mm / 2.81in Black / silver $13.53
BRXSG35 44.45mm / 1.75in 85.85mm / 3.38in Black / silver $17.87
LTRXSG31 31.75mm / 1.25in 68.58mm / 2.70in Light TC / silver $13.81
LTRXSG32 34.03mm / 1.34in 69.85mm / 2.75in Light TC / silver $14.20
LTRXSG33 36.57mm / 1.44in 71.37mm / 2.81in Light TC / silver $14.71
LTRXSG35 44.45mm / 1.75in 85.85mm / 3.38in Light TC / silver $19.36

We also have 80# Japanese Ball bearing rollers.

Alps are pleased to announce the brand new state of the art Alps aluminum roller guides and
tops. These new guides and tops are without question the finest rollers and tops we have seen
to date. Alps spent over two years design, testing and refining these new guides and tops. They
have rewarded us with the finest rollers and tops we have ever been able to offer. Take a close
look at all the features listed below; we think you will agree with us, that this is some of the
finest guides and tops ever offered to the market place.
Guide feet are pre-ground for easy wrapping
Rollers and screws are
made with SS316 stainless
steel for enhanced
corrosion resistance
• Precision CNC machined marine grade aluminum frames
• Super hard anodized finish for superb corrosion resistance
• Two high grade Japanese stainless steel ball bearings used with each roller
• Pin/axle, screws and rollers all made out of SS316 stainless steel for
superb corrosion resistance
• Guide feet are pre-ground then anodized for easy wrapping
• Perfect for use on rods up to the 80lb. class
Guides And Tops
(Dimensions & Sizes)
Size Height mm (in) Length mm (in)
01 33mm(1.33”) 83.49mm(3.28”)
02 39mm(1.53”) 88.29mm(3.47”)
03 44.5mm(1.75”) 91.32mm(3.59”)
04 49mm(1.92”) 92.51mm(3.64”)
05* 61.21mm(2.41”) 113.25mm((4.45”)
Size Tube I.D. mm
10 4.0mm
12 4.8mm
14 5.6mm
16 6.4mm
18 7.2mm
20 8.0mm
22 8.8mm
24 9.6mm
26 10.4mm
28 11.2mm
* Features two rollers
Part Number Frame Color & Material Roller Material & Plating
BRXSG01 Black Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
BRXSG02 Black Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
BRXSG03 Black Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel

BRXSG05* Black Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
XARBRXSG
(Alps Black Anodized Aluminum Roller Guide With SS316 Stainless Steel Roller)
XARMSRXSG
( Alps Matte Silver Anodized Aluminum Roller Guide With SS316 Stainless Steel Roller)
Part Number Frame Color & Material Roller Material & Plating
MSRXSG01 Matte Silver Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
MSRXSG02 Matte Silver Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
MSRXSG03 Matte Silver Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel

MSRXSG05* Matte Silver Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
Frames are CNC
machined from
6061 marine grade
aluminum
NEW
Batson enterprise 2008/09



Part Number Frame Color & Material Roller Material & Plating
BRXST10.0 Black Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
BRXST12.0 Black Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
BRXST14.0 Black Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
BRXST16.0 Black Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
BRXST18.0 Black Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
BRXST20.0 Black Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
BRXST22.0 Black Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
BRXST24.0 Black Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
BRXST26.0 Black Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
XATBRXST
(Alps Black Anodized Aluminum Roller Tip Top With SS316 Stainless Steel Roller)
XATMSRXST
(Alps Matte Silver Anodized Aluminum Roller Tip Top With SS316 Stainless Steel Roller)
Part Number Frame Color & Material Roller Material & Plating
MSRXST10 Matte Silver Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
MSRXST12 Matte Silver Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
MSRXST14 Matte Silver Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
MSRXST16 Matte Silver Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
MSRXST18 Matte Silver Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
MSRXST20 Matte Silver Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
MSRXST22 Matte Silver Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
MSRXST24 Matte Silver Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel
MSRXST26 Matte Silver Anodized 6061 Aluminum SS316 Stainless Steel

Karry Batson
Batson Enterprises Inc.
Ph: (877) 875-2381
Fax: (360) 683-3579
karry@batsonenterprises.com
www.batsonenterprises.com

Thanks fellas for the replies!

First I'll try to give a bit more information into what I am considering. I intentionally left the questioning vague an open ended to get a broader answer base.

So here it goes......

Species wise, I'm willing to bet it's an overkill to use 60-80lb class gear in NorCal to chase after albacore on the troll. But considering I do spend more time on party boats versus private boats I tend to error on the heavier side of the line class. With that said, I choose the 100lb hollow core spectra simply for splicing the mono/floro and no knots. I have found with my limited experience 60lb mono goes fine into 80lb hollow but 80lb hollow does not go all that well into 80lb hollow hence 100lb. But I have also considered using wind on leaders too.

I've also considered that the 60-80lb class troller can be used down in SoCal for shorter range trips in the 1-2 day events rather than cow-hunting at 5-10 day epic adventures.

Sure, I can use the troll gear provided on the boat but I would rather not, as a personal preference.

Reel-wise, I thinking along the lines of a Cal'd Tiagra 16/20 or a Baker 12.

Ken, you bring up some great points on weight and heat dissappation of which I have considered at length. Though with little experience with building such gear I have no personal experience. I have no informed opinion on which brands would perform the best with my given application but I am willing to give it a shot.

Wil -
Now I better understand what you are doing as regards the hollow core line. Personally I consider your approach as good or better than wind-on leaders. With your method you eliminate the problems of line passing through the rollers and onto the reel and the connection is as strong - without the "hardware". Also with your method you can easily "get by" with the lower framed guides (such as All American rollers) - and as has been noted (by Rena) they are NOT plated. When AAR entered into the design of these guides they (apparently quite carefully) complied with USG (and aerospace industry/NASA & NRO) standards in the metallurgic composition and finishing of the base metal. My background (from a previous life dealt with design of spacecraft - including stress brought on by high G forces during boost) but I am not qualified to discuss specifics of 316 vs 321L or other technical parameters (compositions/coatings) on metal surfaces but I do recognize the time and effort AAR put in. Since you're out on the "right coast" you might even give AAR a call to see if you can drop by to chat/visit them (nice, nice people!). You might also want to look into an AVET two speed reel - also made in the USA and also out your way.

All American Roller Guides
+1-714-505-3177
1100 Irvine Blvd. - #19
Tustin, CA 92780
Fax: +1-714-505-8920
E-Mail: aarollers@aol.com

The AFCTO's are fine. I've used them for 25 years or more. And they handle the spectra just fine. They are all I use. If you want confirmation of this go to the long range landings in San Diego where spectra ranging from 20 - 200 lb test is the standard spool filling, and do a little survey. Here's what you will find for roller rods: 95 plus percent are AFTCO's, Some of the hot sticks are moving over to the HD Sic and the Titan ring guides, but in the over 50 lb class, its pretty much an all AFTCO crowd.

So use the other makes if you wish (I have not heard any bad news about the All Americans, and have no exposure to the Winthrops), but make your decision eyes open!

Thanks again fellas for the info.

Whit, I absolutely agree with your statements hence the reason I posted the question here...just a wide variety of experiences at my fingertips.

Ken, thanks for the info too! I'll drop a line to AAR to get some ideas.

More info....please!

I have no doubt that a high percentage of rods use AFTCO rollers. They have been around a long time and they are installed on a good number of factory rods. The difference today is that the choices have grown - as evidenced by the number of brands that have been supported in this thread (/ alphabetical order AAR, AFTCO, ALPS/ BATSON, PACBAY, WINTHROP) - and there are others that have not (yet) surfaced.