Can someone give me a run down of the various materials (maybe not all but the common) used to make guide rings? There are so many and so many prices it is overwhelming for a newbie to figure out what I need for a given application.

Maybe the same info for the guide frame would be beneficial also.

I tried searching the archives here but didnt have much luck.

Thanks in advance!

Dave,
Try putting in "vickers scale", use the all dates function. Probably 2 cups worth of info there.

Ok thanks. I have never heard of the term "vickers scale" I will search it and see what comes up.

The information concerning available guides with their style, frame material, ring material, height, size, corrosion resistance, flexibility, color, ring coating and intended use could be the source of a very thick book with small print. If you do not have access to a local builder who can show and discuss some of the differences you should get Anglers, Mudholes and Batson's Catalogs and carefully study all. This should give you some idea as to the order of magnitude of the stuff available. It may be easier for you to define the specific type of rod and intended use to narrow your search on this board for assistance.

Good Luck
Gon Fishn

What are you looking to buidl a rod for? The best way is to start learning about the type of rods you are buildign and the various component choices for that application.

A Scurilous Imposter has attacked teh board. Chech out teh "Vivona" post above. There are not one but three tip offs that someone is making teh posts in some else's name!

Quote!

"What are you looking to buidl a rod for? (The) best way is to start learning about (the) type of rods you are buildign and (the) various component choices for that application."

Or did a foul ball tipped off of a bat rip other fingers and catch the coach by surprise?

Gon Fishn

Dave:

The Vickers scale, and there is another scale that measures hardness, (Vickers is bandied about most on this site Although Cliff would know the other off the top of his head, in school if memory serves, we used the Rockwell hardness scale, I never heard of the Vickers until some years later). and thus translates into smothness, the harder a material is the better, but it also becomes more brittle and suseptable to cold which increases brittleness, and as most of these materials are ceramic, heat dissapation is an issue and is best in the higher end guides (SIC) There are also various coating that are applied over the ring material which are very smooth and can resist a file which is far less hard. Super lines do not cut the guides, the sediment from dirty water lodges into the weave of the braid and acts like a fine abrasive that can have an effect on ceramic rings. Fused line never cuts average harndess ceramic rings. Very fine micron abrasives are used to poish hard surfaces/facets such as diamonds. Fine traped abrasives running over the same location can cut a groove in ceramics and a higher hardness ceramic will avoid this occurance most probably starting at the higher end of standard 1200-1400 Alu Oxide ceramic ring material of which Alconite Rings are a high end hardness Alu. oxide

Click on the LINK below for more indepth insight


www.ClaranceWilliamsIII.com <( NO NOT THAT LINK)

VICKER'S HARDNESS SCALE:
RC= Ring Color
Stainless Steel (SS): 200
Chrome: 800-1000
Aluminum Oxide: 1200-1400 RC: Dk.Brown Fuji Harloy RC: GRAY,.
Alconite 1700 Fuji RC:Black ^ PacBay Hialoy RC: Dk.Brown ^
Zirconia: 1400-1800 American
Nanolite: 1800 American
SiC: 2200-2400 Fuji, PacBay. ALWAYS HARDEST RC: Dk.GRAY Shiney

Re: SiC guides ... Cliff Hall ... Nov. 3, 2005 06:11PM
[www.rodbuilding.org]
Guide Ring Ceramics Compared to Silicon Carbide (SIC):

Re: SiC guides ... Mark Gibson ... Nov. 6, 2005 09:10AM
[www.rodbuilding.org]

Gold=Titanium Nitrate coated (2500-3000 Vickers Scale) RC: Gold
Silver=Titanium Hydrogenation coated Tich RC: Gray
Blue=Titanium Oxide ocated
********Titanium Carbide (1900-2400 Vickers Scale)

All three of these PVD coatings have a higher Vickers hardness than
the underlying zerconium. The PVD coatings are also smoother
resulting in a lower coefficient of friction.
Pac Bay, Batson, and American Tackle all coat their zirconia rings with,
Tutanium Nitride ( 2500-3000 Vicker's Scale),
Titanium Carbide (1900-2400 Vicker's Scale),


Moduals of Graphite

www.advancedcomposites.com






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2006 10:11PM by Chris Karp.

Thanks for all the help. At what level of the Vicker scale do you consider the ring hard enough to stand upto braided lines or even steel wire?

Thanks
Dave

Dave Digirolamo - ALL Ceramic Ring Guides used in Line Guides for fishing rods have a VICKER'S Hardness Scale (VHS) of at least 1,000, if not 1200-1400.

A STEEL FILE is below that on the VHS, and there is AMPLE EVIDENCE & VOCIFEROUS PERSONAL TESTIMONY from many rod-builders here at RBO to assure anyone paying attention that:
SUPER-BRAID FISHING LINES WILL NOT GROOVE any decent CERAMIC GUIDE.

The MOHR's or MOR's (spelled both ways, unfortunately) Hardness Scale is the older mineral-based / geologist-oriented Hardness Scale to which Chris Karp referred. None of the Rod Component Mfgrs use that scale, so make yourself acquainted mostly with the VICKER'S values.

Learn this info as you need it, rather than swamp yourself with information. Decide on the proper FRAME STYLE for your Line Guide for a particular rod project, and you will by default have a suitable Ceramic Ring.

Rome wasn't built in a day, ... B)- ... -Cliff Hall, FL-USA.

CHRIS...

Ok i have to admit this...you are smarter than this cheese-head! I sincerely mean this too..

Paul

Cliff Thanks for the input. I bought American Tackle BCUE guides for a medium use Surf rod and I wanted to make sure that they would hold up to the braid if I decide to go that way.

They will hold up just fine.

My original post was updated to basically add, that Super BRAIDS (not fused) lines can trap abrasive sediment that will damage some guides surfaces. Hardness on the higher end of the vickers scale for Alu Oxide guides should still be no problem althouigh identifying the exact hardness of lower end ceramic materials, per MFG, can be. The self depricating cheese-heads still beat the Detroit Lie-Downs/Liars last week. I have pick-up a great deal of knowledge though: the college of hard knocks, Rodmaker Mag, and here on site