Does braided and spiderwire type lines cut groves into the hardloy eyes?
Rob

No no line but wire would groove a guide. It the dirt and sand that some get in their superlines that damages the guides. I have one rod and reel that have to have more than ten years on the 35 lb Tufline amd Hardloy guides with no wear I can see.

From another point of view, you can also readily demonstrate to yourself with an old guide and an old steel file, that any Aluminum Oxide ceramic guide used for fishing line will DULL the grooves of a steel file. ... See below for Values of the Mohrs Hardness scale (which is a relative scale), ... -Cliff Hall+++

MOH's or MOHR's Relative Hardness Scale and the Ceramics Used
in the GUIDE RINGS of Modern Fishing Rod Components (Sept. 2004):

The values for Mohr Hardness Scale for these substances are (1):
Zircon, cubic - 7.5
Aluminum Oxide - 8.0
Silicon Carbide - 9.0

Some other commonly encountered abrasive substances are (2):
Silica Sand - 5.0
Window Glass - 5.5
Mineral Sand - 5.0-7.0
Steel Knives - 6.5-7.0 maximum
Steel Files - 6.5-7.0 maximum

So, any of the ceramic guide rings should be much harder than any of the abrasives which rub them during fishing. But variations occur between manufacturers due to fusion conditions (temperature, pressure, time & atmosphere), impurities and final polishing. If the mechanical strength of the ring is good, any of the aluminum oxide rings may be sufficient. (Those first-generation white-ceramic in the black plastic ring were more brittle than glass and an accident waiting to happen.)

Mohr's is a relative scale, with arbitrary gradations.
In terms of absolute hardness (2):
# 7 - 100 Quartz
# 8 - 200 Topaz
# 9 - 400 Corundum
#10 - 1600 Diamond

From a Google Search using the term "MOHR HARDNESS SCALE".
(1). Robinson, John. "What Lies Beneath - Surface Preparation, The Key to Coating Performance". Corrosion Management (May 2003), pp. 16-22. An industrial journal; article describes international ISO-8502 protocol for painting structural steel. [www.corp.indgalv.com.au]
(2). [mineral.galleries.com]


You can examine and down-load a VICKER'S HARDNESS SCALE Bar Graph for SiC and various Zirconia materials at Batson Enterprises: "GUIDE RINGS & FRAME MATERIAL" - [www.batsonenterprises.com] -Cliff Hall+++

NO!!!!!!!! Another common misconception.

Mike

This might make in interesting article for Rod Maker. We would have to find a way to duplicate the friction that is caused by a red fish peeling out braided line with sand stuck to the braided line for a true test, but a test in a laboratory with different guide inserts would sure be of interest to me.

I am on the "Pro Staff" for Power Pro fishing line and have written several articles on braided spectra and would be glad to help. Braided lines DO NOT harm modern rod guides in ANY way.


My articles are on my web site :

[duanerichards.proboards23.com]

Copy and paste that in your browser and it'll take you to the articles area if you like.

DR

Will the braids cut the stainless wire type guides?

Fishing salmon in alaska rivers with braided lines since the first kevlar line was in the testing phase, I have yet to see it cut into a modern guide ring. Much of the water I fish is silty or sandy, so the line is picking up glacial powdered silt and sand and running it through the guides, with a hard fighting king salmon on the end. I generally hook from 2-300 kings a season. This is as good a field test as any that has been performed, I would hazard to say.

Warren, I've seen many non-insert guides that have been grooved by braids, especially here on the mississippi and missouri rivers. They ain't the "Big Muddies" for nothing. Braided line in this area can work just like a cable type camp saw on steel guides. I've seen older rods here from old timers who chase big catfish where you couldn't tell where the rod stops and the reel begins. They are petrified, or at least, coated in stone with guides that feel like a nail file. Rather than get a new rod, they just keep increasing their line strength (and still losing more fish). (As you can imagine, custom rods aren't for most folks here.. lol)

As far as Rob's question, no. Ceramics (all lumped into one category) are very resistant to abrasion. As Cliff mentioned, grab a file and see what you can do to one. You'll do more polishing than anything else. Cracking is why you want to do a Q-tip test every so often, if you are tough on your rods. But even then, I haven't seen a cracked ceramic in a long time and the ones I did, were the early ones with the shock ring.... they had a shock ring for a reason.

Have to agree with Spencer and Mick, I do most of my fishing in mangroves, quiet common for me to toss the lure onto the mud on the shore line and retrieve the lure from there. The non fussed braids tend to hold the grits and it is these grits that seem to do the damage.

Just so I got this straight. Can we agree that guides with ceramic inserts, will not groove when using braided line?

The only grooving that appears to have been posted here is braided line and metal guides. Correct?

Buzz,

Correct from my end.

Braids may grove metal guides.

As to the soil pickup theory, I guess anythings possible.

DR