I have a 4pc fly rod that suffers from loose ferrules. Is there anything I can do (short of super glue) to tighten them up a bit? Ferrule wax, maybe?

Thanks.

Bob

Bob, cheap easy temporary fix is bees wax
John

Probably the best and most long lasting fix is to remove a portion of the male ferrule end. That will let the female portion seat a bit lower on the male and grab it tighter and better.

I second the recommendation for bees wax. Try to get a chunk of natural bees wax from a bee keeper, if possible. You may also find it in a craft store, but just be sure it is 100% bees wax, you don't want candle wax (too slippery). Bees wax is an amazing substance, I use it on rods, as a lubricant for nails, thread lock on screws, etc. A big chunk of it lasts a long time and you will find many uses for it in your shop or around the house. The stuff is pretty hard in its natural form, but you can soften it by kneading it if that matters to you. I apply the wax in its hard state by rubbing a thin layer on the blank and then twisting the sections together slowly, but firmly. If you do this and your rod still comes apart during use, I'd say talk to the blank maker, you may have a poorly fitted ferrule. Good luck.

I cannot say for sure and do not to put the kibosh on anybody's excellent advice, but I seem to remember some knowledgable people strongly advising against the use of wax of any kind on ferrules. I might do a search and see what I can find. Not sure if it was on this board or not. I may be mistaken.

All the 60,s-70's vintage Fenwick Feralites came with a decal that reads," IMPORTANT Twist on-Twist off. Apply Parrifin to Ferrule as Needed for Lubrication."
Unless the Ferules are loose enough to feel a slight rattle,if you apply a film of wax(either paffifin or bees wax to the male end) put together 90 degrees out and twist to alignment,you will not be able to pull the rod apart without twisting first. The friction generated in the twist softens the wax film enough for it to cling to the other section.
Give it a try. If it doesn't work,a little denatured alcohol and away it goes.
Aside--if you have a rod/rods that seldom if ever get taken apart,if you use this method,they will come apart even after 10 or so years with a simple twist.
I use this on all my rods ever since leanring of it from the Fenwick Rep in '79. I use it on Tip overs, Spigot ferules,metal ferules(they can REALLY get stuck/loose). Hope this is some help.
Alex

I wax all my ferrules before the customers get'm. I use a parafin based wax on all new rods. And recommend that to all my customers. U40 makes a good ferrule wax. On older ferrules that have loosened up, try the bee's wax first, before removing anything off of the male end. Most experienced fly fishermen will already be familiar with keeping ferrules waxed on thier expensive fly rods. The use of wax will stave off ware, and help prevent them from loosening up for a long time.

Bill Doherty

Wax is never a good thing to use on a ferrule. Beeswax will help your sections hold on a temporary basis. Paraffin will lubricate and make it easier to get them apart. But both attract dirt and particles that can damage your ferrule, not to mention the change in fit that can actually crack and rupture a ferrule.

The U-40 Ferrule Lube is not a wax really. It is liquid teflon which dries completely and does not attract dirt or particles. It does not change the fit of the ferrule but does make your ferrules stay put better and also makes them easier to get apart, when you are ready to do that.

If you have a poor fitting tip over butt ferrule, you must first determine where the fit is poor. Does the male section bottom out in the female section, preventing the butt end of the female from purchasing the lower portion of the male? (In this case, remove a bit off the top of the male ferrule.) Or does the butt end of the female purchase too soon, preventing the male from attaining good contact all along the walls of the female section? (In this case you'd remove a bit from the butt end of the female section, or in some cases, fit is restored by careful light sanding. This scenario is the more troubling of the two.)

Another method is to apply a single coat of Permagloss to the male ferrule. Let dry, then lightly sand to restore the fit.

You can probably restore the fit to your ferrule, but you need to determine where the fit is poor and make the correct changes to get the fit where it needs to be. Work carefully and slowing or you run the risk of ruining the ferrule completely.

...................

I have to chip my 2 cents here to support Tom and defend the statement that U-40 produces a Wax for ferrules. We produce a ferrule lube engineered just for rod ferrules but as Tom stated it is not a wax of any kind.
I can't think of anything worse to put in or on your ferrules than bees wax. Maybe hot tar, or cold molasses. Ferrules are made at the factory to have a close fit to the entire surface of the glass and resin which makes up the rod. There is no allowance for adding bulk in the name of beeswax or paraffin-- this added bulk will only ruin the fit, and the grit and grime that the stuff collects acts as an abrasive and further agitates the tolerances. Many a ferrule has passed through my hands wherein the original factory tolerances were destroyed and the ferrule is now loose and the rod cannot be assembled-- all because the owner was told to use paraffin to lubricate the ferrule. So he used paraffin and ruined the ferrule. Two things happen, grit collects and reams out the female part of the ferrule, and the bulk makes an undo load on the female section resulting in minute cracks on the edges and loosening the fit.. I fix these by cutting off about 1/4" to 1/2" of the end of the male section. Cleaning out the inside of the female with alchohol, stripping off the thread from the female end, grinding away the cracks and re-tying the entire ferrule. When the ferrule once again fits along its entire surface, a liberal coat of U-40 ferrule lube on both sections will assure it of a good fit with no interference in its designed tolerances.
Fenwick used to put instructions on their fiberglass rods to lubricate the ferrule with paraffin. It took them a decade or two to correct that error -- but you don't see it there anymore do you.
The usage of beeswax and paraffin for lubricating rod ferrules is one of the real evils out there in our industry. It is responsible for many a ruined ferrule -- which gets blamed on poor manufacturing. However it also brings lots of business to the custom rod builders.
Renzetti Inc of the fly tying vises and rod lathe fame is soon to be marketing a special lubrication aimed at 4 pc flyrods, and I can guarantee you it won't have any beeswax or paraffin in it.
Ralph

Like Bill I thought that the U40 ferrule lube had a wax in it. No matter, we both seem to know it's good stuff. The one thing I can't get right with it though is that it dries so fast I can't really coat the male section and then get the female down over it to smear it inside that section. What is the best way to apply it? I've taken to using a cotton swab to coat the male and inside of the female ferrule. Anything wrong with that?

As a manufacturer I have to support the "non" use of any type of wax. This in my opinion can only cause future problems. I have seen hundreds of rods and blanks returned for finish scratching because of using this type of product on the ferrule. It is a magnet for small particles of sand and abrasives.....and as many of you know when you have a single grain of abrasive on a perfect fitting ferrule it just destroys it. I have been using the U-40 ferrule lube for some time now and find it an excellent product to use on both spigot ferrules and tip over butt ferrules.
My advice for resolving this problem also depends on whether the tip of the male ferrule is bottoming out inside the female or whether the female is doing so on the male........ this could make a definite difference in how you would fix the problem.

Todd

Todd
Tom
When a ferrule is loose due to wear and tear, it is ALWAYS loose because the male section bottoms out inside the female section. NEVER is the opposite a factor on worn ferrules. The condition wherein the female ferrule prevents the male from fully engaging is a condition from the factory -- not from wear. The ONLY proper way to fix the loose ferrule is to remove the end of the male ferrule until it properly fits without bottoming out. Any attempt to build up the male ferrule will only be temporary and is more mickey mouse than permanent.
Ralph

Ralph:

I absolutly did not mean to misrepresent your ferrule lube. I was attempting to extoll it's virtues. I apologize for my mistake. I guess that would be like calling Rod Bond "a really good glue". It doesn't take a "rocket scientist" to read the label on the bottle.

Bill Doherty

Bill,

We all make those mistakes at some time or another. There are so many concoctions it's hard to keep up with the exact ingredients of all of them. The important thing for the rod builder, is that they work.

The bottom line here is that over the long haul (if not the short one) wax is not the optimum product to use on ferrules and may actually do more harm than good in many instances.

I have gotten many ferrules from the factory that had a poor fit (I don't know how they passed quality control) and Ralph is right in that poor factory fits are usually represented by ferrules which do not gain enough purchase by the female on to the male section. The bottom of the ferrule opening grabs the male portion too soon and the male then sort of "rattles" around inside the female section and you get what I have always referred to as "ferrule click".

The older Fenwick type Feralite ferrules were of a continuous design and as it wore, the fit stayed pretty decent. But that type of tip over butt ferrule design is not the most efficient and did not produce blanks that in multi-piece design were very close to their exact one-piece cousins.

Most of the more modern tip over butt designs feature a "belled" female section which tapers rapidly back down to a normal blank diameter. This allows the maker to more closely approximate the same action and feel as his one-piece designs in the same model. But this also means that as it wears and the male begins to seat farther and farther into the female section, it will at some point, bottom out and prevent secure seating.

I don't know how many of you are familar with the "morse taper" that is used on so many tools, shafts and chucks. It is a very secure connection and relies on precise fitting and 100% contact of all mating surfaces. Ferrules are much like this. When you have 100% contact of all surfaces the assembly is strong and will stay put. When the fit is not precise, you have almost nothing. The reason wax seems to work well on some occasions and for some people, is that it takes up some of the open spaces and mimics a good fit. But the fit is still poor. The stickiness also attracts the dirt and particles we have spoken of here.

.................

I got a 2-piece tip over butt Lami blank a while ago and never noticed that the ferrule fit was a mess. At that point I had the grip and seat on the butt section and guides taped in place. I joined the sections together to test cast and immediately discovered the loose ferrule engagement.

When joined, the female, seated as far down on the male ferrule as she can go, is too big. There is a hair's width of space between the two, so that they are not fully engaged. The female section seems like it's seated for some of its length, but at the bottom end of the female ferrule the fit is visibly loose and the tip section moves when wiggled.

Learned one lesson from this already: Check your blanks when you get them and address any concerns right away with the seller.

I've read this thread but I am still not sure what the best course of corrective action is. I've never dealt with this before and I'd appreciate your advice. \

Pat