There is an issue with how rod blanks are categorized that has been bothersome to me for many years now, as a custom rod builder, manufacturer, and supplier. I would like to ask for some help, and or suggestions, in coming up with a solution that would be recognized by rod builders. So, it is to the rod builders around the globe that I ask.
Rod blank models are originally developed and manufactured for specific purposes, techniques, and then put into a category. What we find is that not long after a particular blank has been developed, it ends up being the best thing since sliced bread for a totally different type, technique, or region, as well. I have always referred to these as "crossover" models. We see this in many of the Bass models, such as the original Popping blanks making great crank bait rods, and inshore flats rods. The same is true in some of the Salmon/Steelhead models being used as surf rods for some particular usage. Saltwater inshore models that are used for some other freshater applications. Mag Bass and Composite Cranks being ideal for distinct saltwater, and so on.
I spend hours each day talking rod blanks and applications to manufacturers and custom rod builders around the world. I end up asking all of the particulars, line wieght, lure weight, currents, wind factors, species, structure, etc.. Almost always, there is a rod blank model that is ideal, but listed under the original category of design. What has been happening for much too long now is that most of the newer builders will go through a rod blank catalog by category only. For instance, if they are looking for an inshore saltwater rod blank, they will overlook the Bass section, and visa versa. Many multi purpose rod blanks are being overlooked. I am quite sure that this has been a stumbling block in sales and service for ALL manufacturers, rod builders, and suppliers. In fact, I know it has.
Custom rod building is so specialized that the knowledge of all of the "crossover" models is a part of the service that is offered as a custom builder. The custom builder takes these "crossover" models, and builds them for exact purposes, as in handle lengths, guide choices, placement, etc.. This again, is one of the services offered by the custom builder that seperates them from factory rods. The old timers out there have perfected this.
I realize that as a manufacturer and supplier, we really cannot come up with five or six different item numbers for the same rod blank. What I would ask is, can some dialog be started between the builders, manufacturers, and suppliers, to simplify this for all of the rod builders out there, and possibly come out with a "standard" that is recognized, approved, and supported by the rod building organizations.
This would certainly support the custom rod building market.
Just a thought, as I desire to support this custom rod building craft, and the people involved.
Thanks,
Bob Batson
"Rainshadow"
Any suggestions?

Have you considered changing the category types? Instead of listing catagories as bass, spin, casting, etc., etc., why not use catagories based on action or power ratings? Put all the fast action blanks in one catagory and the medium in another and so forth. Or classify them by power. All the ultra-light in one column, the light in another, the medium in one, etc., etc. To me this would make things much easier than the catagories they are listed under now.

Pleaz don't do it Bob, "standardize" rod actions would make rodbuilding boring, can you imagine all lite beers taste the same? all lite cigarettes taste the same? or even worse, all VSOP Cognac taste the same?

I don't think Bob means "Standardize" from a standpoint of making all actions the same. Rather, create a standard from which the terminology we use to describe rod action can be applied universally from company to company.

William has a good idea. Catagorize blanks according to action and/or power. You could still include some type of "recommended use" listing for those who need help in deciding which blank is most likely to fit their needs.

....................

Keep it simple.

Blank material desgination:
IMX, GLX, Eglass, Sglass, or whatever

Taper (NOT action):
Slow = S
Medium = M
Fast = F
Extra Fast = E

Length in INCHES" only

Pieces

Line Weight in the IDEAL poundage only

Lure Weight in the IDEAL weight only

Blank Weight in ounces

Butt diameter in inches

Tip diameter in inches

Color in whatever color the blank comes in; matt = M, standard gloss = S, etc.

That's it, no more info needed! Power and action are not good terms to use for a rod builder, a fisherman yes because they have been conditioned to think in those terms. The above specs are all a rod builder needs to know about a blank and he should be able to take a customers specs, cross reference the above information on a blank and build the rod.

Example: Customer wants a light and strong, matt finish graphite, 6', 1 piece, heavy power, fast action rod that he will be using with 20# line for throwing 4oz. muskey lures.

Depending on what he wants to spend, I order a IMXF72-1-20M.
IMX is the blank material which basically determines the light and strong, characteristic as well as the price.
F is the fast action characteristic.
72 is the length.
1 is the one piece.
20 is the heavy power, line weight, and lure weight charachteristic.
M is the matt finish.
I may have to interpolate if the description is not dead on the money, but most rod builders can interpolate that if a blank is rated for an "ideal" line weight is 20# you can probably fish 15-25 line on it. Same for the lure weight. The rest of the information concerns specs on fitting grips and tips.

It's early so this is subject to more definition later.

JMHO

Read a book recently about 'simplicity marketing' which sort of describes eliminating models and 'simplifying' choices for the consumer. Example is loss of the plymouth name by chrylser because similar to dodge. Now only Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge. Many companies eliminating models that are similar or do the same job.
Same with toothpaste in grocery store isle, over 50 differnet varieties within one brand name!

The point is we get to the point of severe confusion with 'splitting hairs' about specific categories of many things, and this includes blanks. On the other hand we love choices. Just walk into a tackle store and see the minute variations among like lures.

We also like numbers for comparisons. What really does fast or moderate action mean? These are really subjective terms in relation to any blank and can vary greatly among manufacturers. This is evident by customers comparing say loomis with lamiglass when they bend the rod and can 'feel' the difference , one is 'stiffer' than the other. I think you get the jist.

Personally I like the line/lure ratings as a guideline. I also wouldn't mide some 'standardization' regarding a number relating to power if this were possible. (for comparison between manufacturers...this number can be vastly different from company to company).
Weight in ounces or grams of the blank is important to me, as is the tip size and butt diameter. All give clues as to taper and usage for different fishing situations. Of course last, but not least is the number or code relating to quality or grade of graphite (SCII, GL3, IMX, etc.)
Modulus, I don't really care to know beyond a certain number, and IM
numbers such as IM6 and so on to be looked upon with qualifying caution as to importance for a particular situation of sensitivity and durability.

I wouldn't mind seeing some fashion of thinking about what constitutes 'strength' or durability if this were possible in a number.
It could help a rodbuilder or customer decide and choose more toward a direction of sensitivity at the expense of durability or vice versa. There is more to this and a great challenge for Bob for sure.

Good luck.

Rich
www.solyrich.com

Rich,

Your points are well taken. For the record, Fast means the blank initially bends mostly in the upper 1/3rd. Medium or Moderate in the upper 1/2 and Slow would refer to those that bend over their entire length. (Obviously all blanks will bend over their entire length if you apply enough pressure, that is what most manufacturers call "progressive" action and would be in addition to the ratings of Fast, Moderate or Slow.) These terms for action are generally universal among blank makers. They can also be used together, such as Extra Fast (bending mostly in the upper 1/4) or Medium/Fast (bending mostly in the upper 1/2 to 1/3), etc., etc.

Fishermen often misunderstand the term "action" and use it incorrrectly. Some rod builders do also. I hear them discussing "slowing down action" or rods that have a "soft" or "stiff" action. Technically there are no such things. They are usually referring to power or recovery/damping when they say action.

Another plus for the custom builder, is the opportunity to educate the customer on what the various terms mean. Remember, your customer considers you to be the expert in these matters. Use this as another sales tool. (Knowing Rich, I am sure he already does!)

.................

Since I'm only a fisherman/builder maybe I'm not qualified to comment but I will anyhow. I've been out of touch with fishing and rod building for 4 years, and am now playing " catch-up". Still I have over 20 years at it.
Like the gentleman who listed LineWt, Lure weight , etc I think that would be great. While "action/taper are joint functions I would like to see both action and taper (in 64thsper inch) both listed. I do not like the either/or linewt -lure wt. I want to see both. Personally I pay no attention to "power ratings". Recommended line weight tells me all I need to know about power.
A thing that I find annoying and many who are new at this find confusing is finding a blank listed under spinning and then find the same blank listed with casting blanks as well.
I think that perhaps suppliers might have the best handle on "crossover" blanks.He's the guy that the builder is gonna approach saying something like "man I need LOTS of blank # whatever because its great not only for whatever but also as a whoosit."
Seems that an on the ball supplier would keep track of that sort of thing for future reference.
When it comes to surf fishing blanks what one needs to know now is if the blank is designed for British Style "power casting" and not be listed as British or European because of the ferrule system or the fact that it's 12-15ft long or because of the length of the 2 or 3 pieces. Which in some cases is being done. Its the kind of casting it's designed to take. A pendulum or Uni-Tech cast delivers more power faster than one can possibly imagine until you do it yourself.
The other thing I think we need to know is if a blank is engineered to handle braided line. Some companies specifically say that a certain blank series is for "the hi tech braids" my question then is "does that mean that your other blanks not so identified should not be used with braid?
Mr.Batson Good Luck! You have an excellent idea and I certainly hope you are successful but I wouldn't bank on it. Just list your blanks as iterated here and I'll be happy as a clam. Warren


















































'

I 'd like to throw my "two cents" in here if I may. Being relatively new to Custom rod building (actually really new) I have the same problem with invisioning the performance of a rod as compared to specs. listed in a catalog, and trying to understand all the discussions on the message boards concerning action,power etc.
Why couldn't the manufacturers standarize a performance test that everyone could visuallize for them selves. For instance:
Take any blank, lay it perfectly horizontal on a stand and support the base and mid-section of the rod so that the tip half of the rod was free to bend. Next, attach a 5 oz. weight ( or what ever weight- as long as it was standarized) to the tip of the rod and measure the: 1.) deflection at the tip or the amount of distance the tip dropped under the stress of the weight 2.) distance down the rod that deflection occured. The results would read something similar to this:
Deflection at tip = 8 in.
Distance down the rod deflection occured = 3.5 ft.
Now if the rod builder knew the rod length, he could easily visuallize the action of the rod. Another helpful spec would be the rod diameter at standard distances up the rod (butt to tip) if it was given in percentages -such as 30%, 60%, 90% so that the rod length was factured out.
it would look something like this:
Butt Diameter (mm) 12.5 mm
O/D Diameter (mm) at 30% = 10mm
O/D Diameter (mm) at 60% = 7.5 mm
O/D Diameter (mm) at 90% = 6.0 mm
Tip (already given in current specs.)

I could visuallize the rod better if a system that compared all rods to a certain performance standard was used. I'm probably missing something here. How about the spine question? Could be a factor, but if they spined the rod first (and then marked it) ?????

I might have babble off the topic regarding 'subjective' conditions about actions and powers, and realize what Dwaynes post is more of what I was trying to say. Simplicity marketing idea is just to perhaps fine tune the 'specialization' aspect of what blanks are for what purpose. (mabe fewer choices for similar applications?)

I know the standard about action bend of fast tip and so on as Tom K. points out (thanks for clarifying that for the viewers) and this relates to any 'category' of blank. That's understandable for anyone, even our 'uneducated' customers, yet something is still lacking for an acute understanding by rodbuilders after getting through the beginning stages of blank selection from 'category' tables (great for newbies and reference).

I was thinking more of a 'number' applied and maybe the post by Dwayne reflects some more specific thinking on this relating to power/action. I know manufacters do stress and breakage testing with deflection and so on, but perhaps a number applied could give some semblence of 'standard' talk among rodbuilders such as the number for power ratings is already used by some companies.

I guess my head is still fuzzy on this idea of 'categorization', and brings the point home about what Bob is trying to do.

The only thing about all this is it may end up being even more complicated to choose, and it could develop into a 'complexity marketing' scene.
It has to be simple, yet understandable and have practical meaning for true field conditions.

Thanks, Bob, Tom, and all who posted. This is a most interesting subject and am sure it will be revisited many times.

Rich
Solyrich Custom Rods

I would like to thank all of you from this board, as well as the many that contacted me directly.
I will consider all suggestions, and look at possibly making some changes that hopefully work for everyone.
Bob Batson
Rainshadow Rod Blanks
Forecast Rod Components

For Action, why not use the system Orvis has come up with? They have a Flex Index. Take a look at their web site to see it explained.
Wes

What Orvis has done is really just to take what we already have and reasign new names to the various actions. Give them credit though, it is an impressive way to do this and with the new names they can claim it as their own.

.....................

Orvis uses the terms full-flex, mid-flex and tip-flex. This is just some new vocabulary for slow, medium and fast. Nothing new, just a new package.