According to "Dorge" and others,including Fuji,this/these guides are supposed to increase distance with spinning reels,no mention of cnventionals and thats fine with me. But somewhere along the line I've missed something or maybe I've been wrong all these years. When I began to use smaller,higher frame guides on spinners,especially jetty&surf. I found myself looking at the angle between the line roller and the first guide. Even with small high frames the angle seemed too steep and if I moved theguide far enough away to reduce the angle then the line chafed the blank on the retrieve. So many times I had to go to a larger guide and/or play with reelseat installation.
Now the way I understand the commentary and pictures and graphs I've seen the largest LR guide for a BIG surf spinner is a #20. Ok thats fine if it gleans additional distance and eliminates wind knots,etc but what about the angle between the line roller and that #20 guide? Seems to me that the angle is so steep that a lot of pressure is going to be put on the roller(possibly to the point of restricting its turning& we all know what that does). Additionally the steep angle at the guide means more guide surface contacted and that means additional heat/friction. So now if the guide is moved forward to decraese the roller to guide angle you wind up with the line slapping the blank on the retrieve.Perhaps the retrieve slap is no big deal but I know I sure don't like it.
Am I just showing how much I don't know or is this something that has been considered and either eliminated or minimumized? All commentary (theory or practical experience) will be greatly appreciated. Warren

Under the concept system, there is a straight line from the center of the reel spool centerline thru the guides to the insection point with the blank. The line roller has nothing to do with it.

Most who work with the New Guide Concept like to size/locate the stripper guide so that as the line is revolved around the spool, it gently contacts the surface of the stripper guide in a complete 360 degree circle, without deviating from its path. In other words, without being constricted. I think you will find that if you have sufficient height, a guide that is 1/2 the diameter of your reel spool will be about right. You may to go just a bit larger, but it will be close.

As far as the retrieve goes, the more line that contacts the roller wheel, the better the chance it will revolve instead of just slipping on the roller surface (we all regularly oil/grease our spinning reel rollers don't we?). More line contact (purchase) is good, not bad.

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To Start with, Low Rider (ICLCSG, CLCSG, etc.) do not go with the basic concept of New Concept on lure spinning. The idea is that you chock the line as fast as possible and move the guide at least 80 cm from your reel. Most important you need the reel that can handle to match. Currently the Daiwa Emblem Z surf, Shimano Surf reel are the ONLY one that truely utilize that theory. Reel like Penn 950SS, 950SS, Van Staal, the casting performance will suffer. The first guide being a 20 or even 16 whihc Fuji's BRRAND new set up is really drastic. It is hard to imagine using a 16 on a spool like the Daiwa magnesium surf which has a spool diameter of 68 mm. As for the Surf Z 5500, the effective spool diameter off load spread is over 80mm due to the ABS spool. This method will NEVER work right if low velocity lure is what is being used. May be I should clarify what Low velocity lure is (Any lure that its mass vs air resistance is high, e.g. Repala Magnum, Rapala Silver, Big Poppers)

The concept of the tight virtual cone (the space between the first guide and the reel) is very different and dramatic if you have a spool with large diamater line, hard mono, or spool that is not made right (Without forward of backward tilt, Super SHIP, Long Noise).

As the new reels are coming out and the use of Braid is taking hold in the Japanese surf fishing circle, to carry this concept to the extreme, the folloing URL will show that the new Daiwa rod even use the oval gudies to furether lower the height and have no impact on line slap. For a US$900.00 rod it better cast like a dream...LOL

[www.daiwaseiko.co.jp]

To conclude this, if you are use sinker, lure like Cast master (2.5oz or above) Rnagers, Cripple heiring, with the right reel, you are in good shape.

Good fishing (catching) <*)))))))><{

I spent a great deal of time preparing the article that eventually ran in RodMaker on the New Guide Concept. If you read it and follow it closely I am certain you will obtain excellent results for any spinning reel, with any lure and any line. Particularly when compared to what most of us had been doing for so many years previous.

Again, you want the line to follow a straight path, or as close to straight as possible, from the reel spool centerline to the rod blank according to the built-in upsweep of the reel. From there you would want to use very low frame guides to keep the line close to the blank and greatly reduce weight on the tip section (these low frame guides provide one of the greatest benefits of the system!)

Some builders will greatly choke the line at the stripping guide, while others allow the cone to continue until it reaches the actual choke guide location at the intersection point with the blank. You should experiment with both. After you have set up a couple rods this way you will have the necessary understanding to do it quickly and easily.

And don't be afraid to mix and match guide styles to get what you need. Just keep the frames the same color and things will look fine and cast even better.

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I like the looks of these guides Dorge. Has anyone that you know of used them in a conventional casting rod setup?

I can see some applications for decorative underwraps with the distance between the feets.

Can't find any dealers!